Jonah,
You are obssessed with MOI reform credentials. You also seem not to understand how Ghai came in. Just to jog your memory, Ghai came in through Raila during Kanu/NDP merger. He was one part of what NDP placed on the table as part of the conditions....
Other than torturing people, I dont know any other reform that I can right home about MOI. But I do appreciate that he handed over power peacefully without waiting forceful eviction!!!
For Sago, he has confirmed what I have been saying here. He and others do not understand what some other Kenyans went throught! I share the same location with 'President' Ochuka, and I know so many people around our village, some were never even soldiers, who were sacked for talking 'politics'.....!
The truth of the matter, which i must let Sago....know is that the coup was part of MOIs conspiracy to get Luo out of the Army!! He succeeded, even Opande could not rise to the highest top while he is one of the top millitary man in the world! That plan worked so well, and in my village, where we had so many 'pilots' then, (when the rest of Kenyans were still hearding cows), is nolonger dotted with pilots and millitary officers, thanks to MOI efforts!!
On 8/2/10, Jonah Ogaro <jonahogaro@hotmail.com> wrote:
Moi has been pro-reforms. Look here
(i) He allowed minimum reforms through IPPG. THis allowed political parties to nominate Commissioners to ECK. However, this changed around 2007 when one party/person nominated all commissioners.
(ii) He repealed section 2A to allow multipartyism. Some of those who moved a motion to bring in section 2A are on the YES team.
(iii) He started the Constitutional review by bringing in Prof Yash Pal Ghai.
He did his part. As for calling his repressive, it is not true. Some people never wanted him to president after the death of Kenyatta. Read History and you will see the reasons. Someone once said ( sitting Minister), 'hakuna haja ya kubadilisha katiba. Tulitaka kutoa Moi na kwa vile amekwisha toka, hakuna haja'. This was after NARC took power.
From 2002, the only reforms we can talk off are one failed referendum and the one to be held on 4th August 2010.
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:54:39 -0700
From: archjt2004@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [KOL] Moi has still to restore his lost respect.
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Chemurwok,
You must have been one of those who had easy during the Moi regime to be posting opinions as we have been subjected to on this forum. The reason some kenyans moved against the Moi regime was the entrenchment of dictatorship in our country. All avenues for peaceful opposition to the regime was closed. What else do your type had expected kenyans with opposing views do except to try in their limited ways to get Moi and his group removed from power?
If we are to be honest to ourselves the country was brought to its knees by the 24 years of Moi dictatorship. All elections were stage managed to get Moi to state house. Have you forgotten the likes of Kariuki Chotara who took as divine duty to propose Moi on non existent elections and rain on opposing positions.
This country is going to move forward with or without your type. When some people took it upon themselves to entrench terror on their fellow kenyans under the pretext of a stolen election, do you people believe kenyans did not know you had hidden agenda with or without stolen elections!
Ocampo is doing his work and we expect result before october!
OKINDA JT
From: sagongonyi chemurwok <chemurwok@gmail.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 4:29:52 PM
Subject: Re: [KOL] Moi has still to restore his lost respect.
Otieno, you want to tell this forum that nobody was killed in Kisumu or Kibera in 2008? remember we come from the same country and i witnessed the PEV just as you did. There is a misguided trend that killings only happened in RV. Visit Kisumu police station and do a small enquiry on the number of deaths.... do the same on Kibera and Dandora.
Those who want to silence Moi coz of his past record should just forget it. Raila participated in the 1982 coup and he has admitted it himself in his book. He called people for mass action (coded message for people to fight) in 2008. He has never condmned the killings to date. he even visited Jackson Kibor in jail. That is why it will be a tall order trying to exonerate him......however much you may love the guy.
On 7/29/10, otieno sungu <sunoti@yahoo.com> wrote:Sago,Who are those who were killing other during PEV? If Raila "told his followers so, how come only "followers" in RV and particular people heeded his call when he "told his supporters in nation to" massacre?"Don't you find it strange that these people never stopped to think, thye just attacked? Reason bro, reason.Sungu
From: sagongonyi chemurwok <chemurwok@gmail.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, July 29, 2010 11:28:49 AM
Subject: Re: [KOL] Moi has still to restore his lost respect.
Maurice, which Kenyans are forgiving? Moi never asked for any forgiveness and i do not understand why you are "forgiving" him. Did you also forgive Raila for the 1982 coup? how many massacres did he preside over? how about the 2007 PEV? have you forgiven him also? Don't try silencing Moi from exercising his democratic right by bringing in unrelated matters. Everybody has a dark past and your man is part of that dark history.
On 7/29/10, mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca <mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca> wrote:Lee,
Here here. Moi has no moral authority at all to lecture anyone on any aspect of the constitution. He had 24 yrs and either failed or refused to bring about such a set of rules. Shame on him. He's lucky Kenyans are such a forgiving people otherwise they would have lynched him or thrown him inside Kamiti to face those that he harmed through detentions, torture, exile etc.
Courage,
Maurice
Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network
From: Lee Makwiny <amosogal@gmail.com>Sender: mlalahoi@googlegroups.comDate: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:19:43 +0300ReplyTo: mlalahoi@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: [KOL] Moi has still to restore his lost respect.Obed,
I will someone will pass this to Moi and his YK92 band of gangs!
Fact: Moi does not have any moral authority to talk about abortion while he 'killed' so many generation by torturing and rendering reformers 'vegetable' hence can not give birth!
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 8:58 AM, obed nyaribo <obed2003@yahoo.com> wrote:
It is embarrassing for a retired president to be used as a campaign boy by a band of anti-reformists to run from village to village saying that the draft constitution is bad and should be rejected. What is amazing is that Mr Moi does not offer any resolution after the rejection of the draft. The old man wants things to remain the same, which is really dangerous for a progressive country like Kenya. Below are the few facts Moi should be reminded any time he opens his mouth.
1. Fact. During his reign he forced all civil servants in Kenya KANU members, money for for Kanu memberships was deducted automatically through the payroll system. I was a member not by choice.
2. Fact. It is during Moi's rule that a gangster group call Kanu92 was formed that terrorized innocent Kenyans to guarantee his continued rule. The same gangsters are now in the front trying to oppose the draft constitution.
3.Fact. It is during Moi's time that, even his staunch KANU supporters were murdered e.g Ouko and oyugi etc.
4. Fact. It during his time that Goldenberg was created that nearly brought down the Kenyan economy.
5. Fact. It during his time for the first time that clergmen were beaten and some killed like Alexander Muge in addition, women were stripped naked. Shame.
6. Fact. It is during his time that Nyayo torture chamabers were officially open for business and many patriotic Kenyans were rendered "vegetables"by nyayo boys and girls for advocating openness and free speech.
7. Fact.it during his time that, market plots, cemetery, city and town toilets, and land allover Kenya were grabbed by the KANU boys.
For Mr Moi to restore his dented credibility he should cease to be used to do dirty work for others who do not want to see Kenya move forward. He should emulate his next neighbor President mkapa of TZ who has become an elder statesman of the region. It is shameful for a grand and great grand father to be used reckless by his handlers. It also shameful for him to say that this time there is democracy and he has a right to talk like anybody else. He is no like anybody else he is a retired president of Kenya with full government security paid by the tax payers. Further, during his time he denied people to express themselves what he is taking for granted now. He is a lucky man to be living in a free speech Kenya.
He has five days to redeems his lost glory by joining the winning team, even God will forgive him of his past crimes against the people of Kenya. I wish him a quick change of heart for the sake of his grand children.
Obed.
Green is the way, any other way is unsustainable
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