---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Warwaboy Murkubess <stevanok1@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [KOL] Post referendum politics towards 2012 ( Hon.Rutos Candidature)
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Let us be sobber enough to see the obvious.Ruto never said he is totally against the proposed constituttion or reforms.He simply says the constitution has some few evils here and there.What i know is that he is just trying to stop,correct,and pass it.After all most of those mps in yes agree that there were at least 300 amendments to be made.Unless you are stupid enough you wont buy the idea behind the so called ukweli meter.The fact is that Ruto and the PSC had agreed in many issues and that is when he said the constitution was OK, unfortunately that is where the kings of propaganda are concentrating in the clips.It takes a real kenyan with healthy memory to see this.So it is absolute nonsense to take us back when we all know that the COE messed up the document immediately before being passed by parliament.And that is what Ruto is trying to point at.
I dont know why people are bundling Moi and Ruto together.I smell a tribal stigma here.Whereas the later is a clear reformist,the former could be of a different agenda.No one should give us the stupid explanation that ruto is Moi's student because all the vocal politicains both in NO and YES have the same qualification.The only common factor between the two(Ruto and Moi) is their tribe.
Those of us who are in the no camp including Ruto are only trying to say here is a problem,let us solve it now and forget about future amendments which might be difficult to effect.You will argue that the law does not allow amendments at the moment,if the law is sovereign over the people who made it then what is the use of such a law?After you have eaten all the Obama money and have passed a bad constitution you will come to your senses that there is a big problem.That is when you realize that at the end of the day we are also good Kenyans and that we want the best for our country.In fact some of us who are in no might benefit alot in the new constitution( especially in the counties) but we are not selfish,we want a constitution which is good for all of us.
By telling us that this is the only chance to get a new constitution,the Americans are insulting us.Why dont we have another chance?Does it mean we can not agree on a better document? I dont understand what they mean by this.So my point is clear,whether you are Ruto or Raila or whoever,relying on this consitution to help them win the hearts of kenyans and be elected the fourth president of Kenya is being unrealistic.Kenyans are not that gullible to be swept by euphoria of a new constitution to the extend of forgetting individula performance in all sectors. After all, all of us contributed in the making of this constitution even those in the no camp.Therefore flocking the yes camp just to be seen as reformists might not boost one's political chances in the 2012 general elections.So after the constitutional referendum is over,there will be regrouping among the politicians and if the outcome of this regrouping gives way to a political force in favour of those in the NO camp and Kenyans give them the mandate to lead Kenya in 2012, just understand that Kenyans are wise.
Murkubess.
From: Warwaboy Murkubess <stevanok1@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [KOL] Post referendum politics towards 2012 ( Hon.Rutos Candidature)
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Let us be sobber enough to see the obvious.Ruto never said he is totally against the proposed constituttion or reforms.He simply says the constitution has some few evils here and there.What i know is that he is just trying to stop,correct,and pass it.After all most of those mps in yes agree that there were at least 300 amendments to be made.Unless you are stupid enough you wont buy the idea behind the so called ukweli meter.The fact is that Ruto and the PSC had agreed in many issues and that is when he said the constitution was OK, unfortunately that is where the kings of propaganda are concentrating in the clips.It takes a real kenyan with healthy memory to see this.So it is absolute nonsense to take us back when we all know that the COE messed up the document immediately before being passed by parliament.And that is what Ruto is trying to point at.
I dont know why people are bundling Moi and Ruto together.I smell a tribal stigma here.Whereas the later is a clear reformist,the former could be of a different agenda.No one should give us the stupid explanation that ruto is Moi's student because all the vocal politicains both in NO and YES have the same qualification.The only common factor between the two(Ruto and Moi) is their tribe.
Those of us who are in the no camp including Ruto are only trying to say here is a problem,let us solve it now and forget about future amendments which might be difficult to effect.You will argue that the law does not allow amendments at the moment,if the law is sovereign over the people who made it then what is the use of such a law?After you have eaten all the Obama money and have passed a bad constitution you will come to your senses that there is a big problem.That is when you realize that at the end of the day we are also good Kenyans and that we want the best for our country.In fact some of us who are in no might benefit alot in the new constitution( especially in the counties) but we are not selfish,we want a constitution which is good for all of us.
By telling us that this is the only chance to get a new constitution,the Americans are insulting us.Why dont we have another chance?Does it mean we can not agree on a better document? I dont understand what they mean by this.So my point is clear,whether you are Ruto or Raila or whoever,relying on this consitution to help them win the hearts of kenyans and be elected the fourth president of Kenya is being unrealistic.Kenyans are not that gullible to be swept by euphoria of a new constitution to the extend of forgetting individula performance in all sectors. After all, all of us contributed in the making of this constitution even those in the no camp.Therefore flocking the yes camp just to be seen as reformists might not boost one's political chances in the 2012 general elections.So after the constitutional referendum is over,there will be regrouping among the politicians and if the outcome of this regrouping gives way to a political force in favour of those in the NO camp and Kenyans give them the mandate to lead Kenya in 2012, just understand that Kenyans are wise.
Murkubess.
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Evans MACHERA <evansmachera@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: kibaya@aol.com <kibaya@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [KOL] Post referendum politics towards 2012 ( Hon.Rutos Candidature)
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com, evansmachera@yahoo.com
Cc: kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com, NewVisionKenya@yahoogroups.com, bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com, mwanyagetinge@yahoogroups.com, africa-oped@yahoogroups.com, youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com, kca_main@yahoogroups.com, kptj-communications@fahamu.org, christians4constitution@yahoo.com, christiansforyes@gmail.com, anmbugua@musyimilaw.com, omtatah@yahoo.com, tichiokemwa@yahoo.com, onduso87@yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 7:14 PM
Kuria/Evans,That's how it should be. If the YES side wins, Ruto and the entire NO brigade are expected to drop all pretensions to their earlier opposition and support the new law with gusto! Ama, that's not how democracy works/should work? Hillary Clinton vigorously opposed Obama's platform, even calling it a 'fairy tale' but once the man won, she embraced the fairy tale to the letter.George Bush while campaigning against Ronald Reagan for Republican nomination derided Reagan's economic platform so much, he called it 'Voodoo Economics'. Later, as Reagan's VP he was tasked with implementing the 'Voodo Econometrics', which he did with much relish(or so I believe).
The bigger danger lies with those who are tempted to view their brothers/sisters who hold divergent views with contempt just for exercising their democratic right. Somebody calls them Abortionists, Land grabbers, Non-visionaries, non-progressive, non-intelligent, torturers, anti-reformists, you name it!! This is where danger lies; Kenyans crossing the line of decency in the competition of ideas that a campaign like this should be.In other societies, this kind of foul language would outrage voters into the opposite side; in our case the NO side! Closer to home, not long ago, there was a concerted effort to paint people from a certain region who we disagreed with politically in such negative colors. They were called Mafias, land grabbers, thieves, selfish, you name it..who should be consigned in their own landlocked 'Lesotho'! It started in such blogs and spread on the ground with the politicians. The results were there for all of us to see!
Let us adopt civility even where we disagree vehemently. Let us never question each other's patriotism or right to be Kenyan even when our differences are as high as Mt Everest.Good day,kibayaTo: Evans MACHERA <evansmachera@yahoo.com>
Cc: kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; KENYA NEW <NewVisionKenya@yahoogroups.com>; BUNGE MWANACHI <bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com>; MWANYAGETINGE NETWORK <mwanyagetinge@yahoogroups.com>; Africa-Oped <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>; Kenya Forum <youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>; KCA <kca_main@yahoogroups.com>; General communications from KPTJ <kptj-communications@fahamu.org>; CHRISTIANS 4 <christians4constitution@yahoo.com>; christians for <christiansforyes@gmail.com>; ANN MBUGUA <anmbugua@musyimilaw.com>; OKIYA OMTATA <omtatah@yahoo.com>; Belinda okemwa <tichiokemwa@yahoo.com>; cliff onduso <onduso87@yahoo.com>; Mlalahoi <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [KOL] Post referendum politics towards 2012 ( Hon.Rutos Candidature)
Evans,
These politicians are shameless. After August 4th, Ruto will talk and act as if he sired the new constitution. His followers and church folks will forget that they played a central role in trying to commit an abortion on the new constitution. Some will even try to cause SID (Sudden infant death) to the new katiba but they will never succeed. The new katiba will be for those who supported it and also for the abortionists such as Ruto, and Moi.
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Evans MACHERA <evansmachera@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear all,
While some leaders took too long to take a NO/YES position that saw some doing letters and adverts on where they belong,Hon.Ruto steadfastly took a NO stand and has been campaigning against the draft law with gusto to the letter.
Given that we are heading towards the new law,its almost apparent that Hon.Ruto will make to the presidential ballot box come 2012.
If that is the case,how is he likely to support,defend and protect a law whose content he has preached against around the country!
What is likely to be his turning point,or how will he metamorphosis to empress the same as a candidate and more so as a president given the electorates mandate that will see him take the oath of office!
OATH OR SOLEMN AFFIRMATION OF ALLEGIANCE OF THE
PRESIDENT/ACTING PRESIDENT AND THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
I, ……………. , in full realization of the high calling I assume as
President/Acting President/ Deputy President of the Republic of Kenya, do
swear/solemnly affirm that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to the
Republic of Kenya; that I will obey, preserve, protect and defend this
Constitution of Kenya, as by law established, and all other laws of the
Republic; and that I will protect and uphold the sovereignty, integrity and
dignity of the people of Kenya. (In the case of an oath–– So help me God.)
OATH OR SOLEMN AFFIRMATION OF DUE EXECUTION OF
OFFICE FOR THE PRESIDENT/ACTING PRESIDENT
I, ……………… , swear/solemnly affirm that I will truly and diligently serve
the people and the Republic of Kenya in the office of the President/ Acting
President of the Republic of Kenya; that I will diligently discharge my duties
and perform my functions in the Office of President/Acting President of the
Republic of Kenya; and I will do justice to all in accordance with this
Constitution, as by law established, and the laws of Kenya, without fear, favour,
affection or ill-will. (In the case of an oath–– So help me God.)
Evans MACHERA
Towards a new law.
--- On Tue, 7/27/10, Kuria-Mwangi <kjmwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Kuria-Mwangi <kjmwangi@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [KOL] Post referendum politics towards 2012
To: kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "Africa-Oped" <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>, "Kenya Forum" <youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>, "KCA" <kca_main@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 10:34 AM
Odhis,Tell CMW to also consider the fact that in 2012, the new constitution will be in play. No single candidate will garner 50% plus kitu in the first round. All those wannabe candidates will be fighting for No. 1 and 2. The rest (they will be many) will then bring the votes to the table to negotiate for election proper. Enemies will become friends. Ruto is playing 2012 game too and this referendum, regardless of outcome will benefit Ruto. He will have his base to count on and is using it to build himself. He will be a major player in 1212 but I dont see him coming second or first, he doesnt have to but even Raila will be wooing him after the mini election. Other minnows will have numbers to bargain if, others nothing. Unfortunately, other than the 2 seat, there wont be anything to promise, not even cabinet posts.Tell your friend that he also forgot the role to be played by Ocampo. He will disorganize these fellows and so new alliances will emerge and may be new tribal heads to replace those who will be carted to the Hague. So the referendum is important but Ocampo will be more important. And for the final elections, those tribal votes will be important since you will support one of the two candidates upende usipende. It will be interesting.
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Dickens Odhiambo <Dickens.Odhiambo@ gmsi.com> wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: CMW [mailto:nassehw@gmail. com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 1:02 PM
To: Dickens Odhiambo
Subject: Re: Post referendum politics towards 2012
Good points, good points. I think though Ruto is aiming from 2017. Everything he has done since the previous election has been geared toward solidifying his base, not building a national following.
As for Raila he may be a lousy administrator, but the man is a proven campaigner. The next election is a purely presidential system and Raila is going to be in the driving seat. Since the last election, Raila has gone with the Moi strategy; he is not wooing tribal blocks, he is going directly to the grassroots. His calculation is he will lose in Central, Eastern and Rift Valley; but, he intends to keep the margins of those loses minimal. This is the reason he has tackled issues that burn bridges with elites from various tribes, but earn him admiration nationally. If you look at the other three candidates, none of them can go it alone and expect to win a sufficient number of votes in other provinces unless they make a deal. If Ruto goes it alone, Raila will get more votes than him in Nyanza, Central, Nairobi, Western, Coast and Eastern. If Uhuru goes it alone, Raila will get more votes than him in North Eastern, Nyanza, Western, Rift Valley and fight him in Eastern.
Without a prime-minister position, there is no way the three make a deal.
My sense is Kenyans are looking for someone outside the norm. Look at the excitement with which they greeted Karua until they realized she is still a wolf. Or Wamalwa, until they realized he is not offering any concrete message apart from "elect me, I'm young."
Wafula
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Dickens Odhiambo <Dickens.Odhiambo@ gmsi.com> wrote:
Peni Mbili thoughts of Post referendum politics towards 2012
<http://kenya. rcbowen.com/ talk/viewtopic. php?id=149177>
Analysis of the Post referendum politics towards 2012, I salute Kibaki &
Raila for their marriage of convenience in trying to give Kenyans a new
constitution the and possibly leave a legacy be it bad or good.
Possible coalition and outcomes are:
1. Raila might go it alone with support from Western as a coalition partner
(but without greater Bukusu and Gusii) but NADA kaput!
2. GEMA, have all the machinery necessary to win, all they need is to lure
Ruto with a position of VP if the draft constitution goes through and will
be done deal.
3. Kalonzo, his political career is in a verge of collapse, the only way
forward for him is his opportunistic tactics, he faces stiff competition
from Ngilu and John Harun Mwau.
4. Rutto, if he decides to go alone, he will complicate the whole equation
and the politics of Kenya, should he decide and a lone race, GEMA will joy
ride to the house on the hill in the simplest manner ever experienced in
Kenyan history (divide and rule) going it alone means that he will have a
overwhelming numbers from the Rift Valley now that he has succeeded in
consolidating the vote in preparation for 2012, some from the Old KANU zones
of N.E and Balala factor in the Coastal area now that he enjoys a good
relationship with him, he might be the 2nd or 3rd after GEMA and or RAILA.
4. If and in case the old Moi students decide to come together (Uhuru ,
Kalonzo & Ruto sharing the powers in the order; President, Prime Minister &
VP) this will make a winning coalition and no doubt humiliate Raila and
bring his political career in Kenya to a end.
Last edited by mjomba (Today 03:08:21)
--
http://www.kuria- mwangi.blogspot. com
http://www.facebook .com/kjmwangi__._,_.___To Subscribe to kenyaonline, visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kenyaonline/join
or send a message to
kenyaonline-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
You can also send a message for the following services:
To Post a message: kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com
To Unsubscribe: kenyaonline-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
To The List owner: kenyaonline-owner@yahoogroups.com
URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kenyaonline
For articles on Kenyan issues, check out our Library at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kenyaonline/files/MARKETPLACE![Yahoo! Groups]()
.![]()
__,_._,___
--
http://www.kuria-mwangi.blogspot.com
http://www.facebook.com/kjmwangi
--
MANY JOB VACANCIES: http://bit.ly/bROydQ
TECHMTAA BLOG: http://bit.ly/cmRFZR
To unsubscribe from this group, Email mlalahoi+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
TO ADVERTISE HERE PLEASE M-PESA KSH 1,000 for each advert or Ksh 5,000 for monthly subscription to +254 726 034 530
--
MANY JOB VACANCIES: http://bit.ly/bROydQ
TECHMTAA BLOG: http://bit.ly/cmRFZR
To unsubscribe from this group, Email mlalahoi+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
TO ADVERTISE HERE PLEASE M-PESA KSH 1,000 for each advert or Ksh 5,000 for monthly subscription to +254 726 034 530
--
MANY JOB VACANCIES: http://bit.ly/bROydQ
TECHMTAA BLOG: http://bit.ly/cmRFZR
To unsubscribe from this group, Email mlalahoi+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
TO ADVERTISE HERE PLEASE M-PESA KSH 1,000 for each advert or Ksh 5,000 for monthly subscription to +254 726 034 530
No comments:
Post a Comment