ORGANO GOLD COFFEE MILLIONAIRES IN KENYA: Re: Fashishti ya Wagallah (It is criminal to deny that it was genocide)

Sala
I guess your use of dear is ironical. What buffles me is whay it is
always difficult to hold an intellectaul debate with people from
Nesrtern without being called names eg you are saying I am openning my
big mouth. asign of temper against any alternative thought. Well as
for me since i was brought up to be patient and slow to anger and to
think repentance and forgiveneness etc I will not a buse you back. God
bless you my friend. I can feel your pain but i also fel the pain of
those who have been widowed and opharned in Nestern. Or is it that
they were Kafiris so their death is like that of animals since you are
a sheikh?.
I am only trying to think out of the box. thus who lit this fire and
why that has caused so much pain and anguish b4 we linch the army?.

In my opinion, it seems when poeple in Nestern kill and maim innocent
people who are "Nywele Ngumu", it is Ok. when people from Nestern die,
then humans have died. let us face it some innocent lives were lost in
that area in the hands of someone. It was basically a dagerous area
even for the police just like mount elgon had become.

As for the figure, we know that both governments and civil societies
tilt figures in a direction to win international and public sympathy
on their side. I am trying to go through the document attached earlier
and i still have a lot of questions. I wish genuine investigations
would take place. That is why I mentioned earlier I would want to hear
from the army's side first b4 drawing conclusions. Convince me to
move from my enquistive mind to support your position. For me I still
insist, repentance and forgiveness is the way to go. NEsteners have to
learn things like mercy, patience, tolerance, forgiveness etc. One day
you will thank me for being bold enough to tell the NEsteners the
healing truth that people fear telling them. A friend tells you real
truth not pleasing lies. over to you too Sala but breath in b4
answering because tempers dont help in a debate. it only revelas
intimidation as a defence of barreness of ideas in achallenge.
Antony

On 10/17/10, Salah Sheikh <salah.sheikh@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Antony Mbayaki,
> What is it that you are trying to convince the world? That if one criminal
> commits a crime, hundreds should be killed? What is it that you are
> connecting?
> How are the 3000 people killed at Wagalla related to the stories you are
> narrating here? What specific crimes had those men committed? where were the
> courts? The police when all these crimes were taking place?
> In the the period between 1980-1998, more than 7000 Kenya Somalis were
> killed in
> the hands of Kenyan security forces. There were no Shiftas then, the Shita
> war
> ended 23 years earlier, why was the security forces hunting innocent people?
> For
> your information of the men who were killed at Wagalla 57 were serving civil
> servants, so what were they killed for?
> You have absolutely no right to cast aspersions on innocent people massacred
> by
> a government led by a rogue dictator. Denying the genocide at Wagalla is
> criminal, in fact those who deny it should face jail term.
> You are writing all these nonsense because they did not kill your family.
> When
> it happens to you is the time you will know how it feels. I wish it happens
> to
> you so that you don't open your big mouth dancing on the grave of victims of
> a
> brutal system that killed them for no other reason that the structure of
> their
> hair.
> Over to you.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ANTONY MBAYAKI <antombeks@gmail.com>
> To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 12:09:32 AM
> Subject: Re: Fashishti ya Wagallah
>
>
> Steve
> thanks for being open minded. I am sure if you are old enough then you
> remember
> the day a militia opened fire on innoccent civil servants in their club in
> Garissa. People who had gone to serve them. Sisters, brothers, mothers
> fathers
> of fellow citizens. What stories does KTN have for the oprhans and widows
> and
> widowers?. NYS squads working in NEstern were wiped out teachers, etc. Ask
> any
> policeman in Wajir today, a recent story is that on the border with Somali
> is a
> distant police post. from nowhere the elshabab just went there and opned
> gunfire
> on the mabati structures. luckily our trained policemen keep outdoors more
> often
> in this region. After the shooting they treked many kilometers to Wajir for
> reiforcement and help . actually one of them died. If this happens more
> often
> dont you think the governement would be justified to send in the army to
> deal
> witrh alshabaab?. thereafter fast forward 20yrs later, KTN type story will
> be
> serialised in the eyes of the children, widow, brothers and sisters, father
> and
> mother uncles, aunties friends neigbours etc(if will still be alife). of
> that
> policeman who died. Please KTN should not be incensitive. This is a waitty
> matter. They should think dual/on their feet before airing this kind of
> programmes
>
> My solution to NEstern and Wagalla is to state the truth square if we want
> to
> help them. people in NEstern have shed so much innocent blood. they have
> left
> many wounds grieve and sadness. do you think God is happy. My solution is
> that
> they call their elders and call a meeting with some of the relatives and
> descendants of the oprhans and plead for forgiveness. else life will always
> be
> cheap in that community. God will revenge these oprhans. Gods revenge for
> murder
> is worse than what the army did. It is long and cruel. It can wipe out whole
> tribes. it does not matter which country you run to. you cant predict the
> method
> of revenge. Look at how the clans there fight each other to death. They are
> yet
> to see. The Somali Christians understand these things and they better start
> pleading to God on behalf of the rest not the KTN way. let them learn from
> the
> Fiji example. actually there is a video on this and can be found in Kenya "
> Transformation Fiji" . the KTN way only increases hate and unforgivenesss.
> The
> army may have been just one of the ways God uses. The children of israel
> were
> handed over to cruel armies when they sinned till they repented. .offcourse
> I
> dont approve of the raping by the army but we all know the army is like
> aGerman
> shephard locked up and that is why it is always kept from civilian life. let
> KTN
> also go to Mount Elgon.
>
> I insist the message should be forgiveness not KTNs way. Dont get me wrong I
> still love watching KTN and even Jicho pevu though.It is just that on this
> I
> think they missed it. I feel for the Wagalla people but it is only the truth
> that sets us free not sympathy.
> Antony
>
> On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:14 AM, steph AM <stepham4@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anthony,
>>
>>I dont think the army and the government were made up of only mad
>> people.How can
>>the human rights groups and the media tell as a story of a conflict from
>> one
>>side and expect us to believe?What was so special with torturing and
>> killing
>>these people?Something is being hidden here.We need at least a glimpse of
>> what
>>provoked the government.There are many reasons why Kenya is stable and such
>>
>>actions could be some of them.Sometimes it is necessary to lose a few
>> characters
>>and save the whole country from eternal chaos.Think about Somalia and guess
>> how
>>it might have started roting.
>>
>>
>>AM.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:57 PM, ANTONY MBAYAKI <antombeks@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>Robert
>>>Let me take you through a short history walk. Please be slow to pass
>>> judgement.
>>
>>>I am just wondering could the army just do this without provocation. I
>>> think to
>>>be sober we need to hear the armies side of the story. those of us who are
>>> old
>>>enough know how NEstern was like those days. If you had a brother in the
>>> army or
>>>police then and he was send to NEstern, you started planning burial
>>> giound. The
>>>so called Nywele ngumu's died. The sad thing is that Somali security
>>> forces ie
>>>police, prisons etc conspired against their colleagues to be ambushed. A
>>> story
>>>is told of one day when the somali militia were being outwitted in an
>>> ambused
>>>their ammunition was running out, a somali policeman threw his gun to
>>> them.
>>>There are many nywele ngumus who died in NEstern, so many, so many. they
>>> were
>>>brothers and fathers too. No one talks a bout this. is it that only the
>>> Somalis
>>>in this new Constutiion are people?.
>>>
>>>
>>>Remember one of their own was in commnad of the army. the guy who quashed
>>> the
>>>82' coup. His profile reads that he is a professional soldier full stop.
>>> It is
>>>said he was such a soldier that he could kill his own village if the
>>> crossed
>>>against Kenya. so what realy happend that the army was send?. to me I am
>>> not in
>>>agreement with the rape and killings but who's sons and daughters and
>>> fathers
>>>were killed by the Wagallas b4 the military was provoked that much?.
>>> Remember
>>>those days, the kenyan military was considered one of the most disciplinRd
>>> on
>>>the continent. Look at even during the 2007/2008 PEV they still kept their
>>> cool
>>>and professionalism. KTN needs to move to mount Elgon and see what the
>>> opposing
>>>sides say a bout the army too. The supporters of SLDF say baaaad!!. The
>>> wananchi
>>>say goood!. I choose to hear from the army's side before i pass judgement.
>>>
>>>doesnt the good book say when
>>>
>>>you hear the 1st person to speak you may think he was wronged till you get
>>> to
>>>hear the other person and discover the lies?.
>>>Antony
>>>
>>>On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:52 PM, omondi omondi <omondiomondi4no@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>Lee,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Achana naye,we know his area of specialty with one from veveland.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Omondi Omondi.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Lee Makwiny <amosogal@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>These are people who should be pursued. Ndunya is silent on this and will
>>>> wait
>>>>for another Raila's sisters, or Odinga's grandchild to shout from the
>>>> rooftop!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Salah Sheikh <salah.sheikh@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Robert,
>>>>>>Read "Blood on the Runway: The Wagalla Massacre of 1984". You will know
>>>>>> more of
>>>>>>what happened and who was responsible.
>>>>>>Salah
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> ________________________________
> From: Francis A Aywa <angila.aywa@pactke.org>
>>>>>>To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; bidiiafricaint
>>>>>> <bidiiafricaINT@googlegroups.com>;
>>>>>>nyciv@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>Sent: Tue, October 12, 2010 7:37:12 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: Fashishti ya Wagallah
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Nkt!
>>>>>>Katiba mpya, Kenya mpya
> ________________________________
>
>>>>>>From: Robert Alai <alai.robert@gmail.com>
>>>>>>Sender: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 19:22:55 +0300
>>>>>>To: ><mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>;
>>>>>>bidiiafricaint<bidiiafricaINT@googlegroups.com>;
>>>>>> <nyciv@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>ReplyTo: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>Subject: Fashishti ya Wagallah
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Guys
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have just watched Moha on Jicho Pevu and I am so moved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Am so moved and I have not seen so much horror in peacetime. Why oh
>>>>>> why. Why
>>>>>>kill your own citizen? Then you hear that people loose evidence through
>>>>>>
>>>>>>breakins. When you loose evidence you really kill the victims twice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Alai
>>>>>>Robert Alai
>>>>>>Blogger
>>>>>>tech@techmtaa.com
>>>>>>TECH BLOG: www.techmtaa.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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