Monday, October 25, 2010

Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeedforpublic office and county loyalty!!!

Paul Nyadoto gets it wrong atleast for the third time in a row. British did not build Kenyan more than Kenyans. They were colonialist! Paul Nyadoto doesnt understand that the Kenyans were given to man eaters inTsavo, tied and beaten. How can he say that British built Kenya more than Kenyans? Its like saying Dr Living stone doscovered Mt Kenya when we had Kenyan living in the region.
 
I agree that the DIASPORA must be given a chance in nation building and they are doing so. They bring to Kenya million of funds for nation building. But we cannot risk the country again and again - and for the time now we havent reached at a level to trust the institution that issue citizenship. Until we reach the level; of Canada etc, we must appreciate that we are at a point Kenya is changing.
 
I think there are some roles that dual citizen can hold. They have helped KENYA ths far and cannot be treated as second class citizens. Kenya does not have the capacity of checking out on these dualism. I think it makes sense to have one denounce the secondary citizenship to gun for Presidency and other public political offices.
 
Probably we should fear sonce global war against terrorism and money laundering is being enhanced and therefore countries will have security linkages to prosecute anyone who will break laws of different countries and runs to another for protection
 
Regards
Kombo Elijah


From: "mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca" <mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca>
To: Paul Nyandoto <paul.nyandoto@phsotey.fi>; mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; ogallo1@msn.com
Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 5:33:57 AM
Subject: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeedforpublic office and county loyalty!!!

Dr. Nyandoto,

I agree with you fully but I am afraud I am suspecting a slight hand of subliminal jealousy at play on this misguided policy.

Canada has no problem with this. We have cabinet ministers, PS-level officers, etc that hold dual or even multiple citizenships. This has never been a problem. Why it would be a problem in kenya is beyond me.

May be Kenya is just desinef to remain the way it is for another few generations.
Courage,
Oduor Maurice,
Owadg'Atieno ma yuor Atieno


Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


From: "Paul Nyandoto" <paul.nyandoto@phsotey.fi>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 05:05:00 +0300
To: <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>; <ogallo1@msn.com>; <mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeed forpublic office and county loyalty!!!

Maurice,

DO NOT GIVE UP. THE CONSTITUTION HAS A LOT OF JOINTS TO BE TREATED. WE NEED ALL KENYANS TO PARTICIPATE IN BUILDING KENYA: The British built Kenya more than the real Kenyans who have been in power since 1963. Even the present railway was built by the British. If we leave Kenya to only the so called real Kenyans it will sink and fail. In constitution making there were cowards who fear competition period!!.  All Diaspora with dual citizenship should just join hands and fight back, We should demand also a post in that parliament. A lot of money are being poured to Kenya by Diaspora that their voices must be heard in decision makings. Ghana is doing a lot much better than Kenya with their diaspora. It is an industry that only fools do not see.

Paul Nyandoto

>>> 10/24/10 3:34 PM >>>

Paul,

If the opinion that those of us who have dual citizenships can not hold State Offices, then we should withdraw from all Kenyan based organizations, movements and political parties.

There is no point to be part of something that treats us as second-class citizens. We should not even bother soliciting development funds from donors. Let the real Kenyans solve their own problems.

Courage,
Oduor Maurice

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


From: "Paul Nyandoto" <paul.nyandoto@phsotey.fi>
Sender: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:44:43 +0300
To: <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>; <ogallo1@msn.com>
ReplyTo: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

Kenyans,

Any element( I mean human being not Mendeliev`s table of elements) chosen to hold any public office like presidency will have to hold a bible before he is sworn in office. By that he promises to rule by constitution of that state and follow the law. So whether he has 10 citizenships or let say only 2 citizenships so long as he is a president of a country he will rule by the law of that country and serve the interest of that country if not then what are the functions of courts and jails in any country?. A kenyan born holding a Kenyan passport should not be discriminated by the Kenyan law. How will somebody be free to develope his country or even invest into a system discriminating him or her?. Slaves used to do so for along time until they revolted and now we see their descedants free and are now sleeping in the white house( which was built by slaves without salary, what a justice?).

 I do stand by my fellow Kenyans who are in the diaspora holding other passports that it is their birth right to hold any office in their mother land including the presidency. The new constitution was passed because people have waited millions of years for it and we have no extra time to lose again. But the constitution have to be remodled and mented to include everybody. The reasoning of finding it hard to know which country to serve best when holding a public office does not hold  water not even truth. There are laws to be served and that is what should be followed. We have seen Grand regency hotel sold to arabs by the so called real Kenyans even if they do not hold Libyian passports. Kenyan land have sold to foreigners by the so called real Kenyans with only Kenyan passports. They have done it even in Japan so guys lets take care. whoever wants to be the president or hold other public office have to serve Kenya with the best interest. By the way who have sold all the good coastal lands of kenya to foreigners do they hold foreign passports I doubt it. Real Kenyans ( as they call themselves) will even sell all oil land to foreigners if Kenya happens to discover any oil. It happened in Nigeria, angola, gabon etc. So what will prevent it not to happen in kenya?.

Paul Nyandoto

>>> HELLON OGALLO 10/22/10 7:53 PM >>>
While you are right as far as the central government is concerned, the same restrictions should not be applicable to the county government. In the United States for example the States, the Counties and the various City governments allow employment of green card holders who are essentially non citizens. 
Hellon 

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 01:41:34 -0700
From: sunoti@yahoo.com
Subject: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeed for public office and county loyalty!!!
To: kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; nyciv@googlegroups.com; mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; africa-oped@yahoogroups.com; VuguVuguMashinani@yahoogroups.com
CC: newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com; bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com; youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com; info@iiec.or.ke; clerk@parliament.go.ke; kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; KPTJ-communications@fahamu.org; njorogep2003@yahoo.com

Njoroge,
 
Good question you ask here, why would we want foreignors to hold public office? Or, why would we want people who may ran away after commiting economic crimes because they have other nationalities?
 
If you want to hold public position, be loyal, first denounce your dual citizenship and come back and contest, that way, you owe unquestionable loyalty to Kenyan and the Kenyan people.
 
We do not want to play polygamy with political office. Othewise, remain a private citizen and enjoy even tripple citizenship is that helps your business and investments. Imagine if one is to negotiate a deal for us with a foreign government where they also hold citizenship? Isn't this a case of conflict of interest? Which side will he get the best deal for? Who will they be loyal to?
 
Otieno sungu


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Re: [NewVisionKenya] RE: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very goodindeed for public office and county loyalty!!!


Kombo,

Since you guys are bent on supporting a bad law, I want to wish you guys good luck as you struggle to transform your country. Don't forget apartheid was law too at some time but it was a bad law.

People like Sungu and Shem are working for the South Sudan govt even though they are not even Sudanese.

Anyway, good luck with your endeavours.

Courage,
Oduor Maurice

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


From: Elijah Kombo <komboelijah@yahoo.com>
Sender: africa-oped@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 02:11:19 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: [NewVisionKenya] RE: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very goodindeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

 


 

The constitution is so clear and i support the stand that a PUBLIC OFFICER must not hold dual citizenship. One must denounce his second citenship to be a public servant. We cannot exhaust the benefits of this clause. Public intereste overides personal and selfish interest. As much as Kenyans in the diaspora have been given some priviledges, we cannot expose our country to an extent that we blind ourself from the risks of dual citizenship. A number of Somalis have got Kenyan citizenship, and still transoit to other countries to attain the same through alienship and finally as a total citizen. In such a case they hold three citizenship. The result is the same as those sOMALI-Americans who are fuelling and funding the Al Shabaab and other militia groups in Somalia. They can reside in three countries bila hussles, and commit all sort of crimes then move to another.

 

Limitations to dual citizenship is necessary for anyone wanting to serve in a public office in Kenya. Lets respect the law as it was passed and we move forward to more progressive issues.

 

Regards

Kombo Elijah


From: otieno sungu <sunoti@yahoo.com>
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Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 11:49:58 AM
Subject: Re: [NewVisionKenya] RE: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very goodindeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

 

Dear Barrack and all,
 
I think we are missing the mark big time. Let us consider a few things. The law allows for dual citizenship, you can be one, but the law tries to protect Kenyan interest by making certain restrictions.
 
Let me pose the following questions, can we have a President who swears allegiance to 2, 3 or 5 diifferent countries? Why would this be tragic? Suppose Kenyans security is threatened to the extent the President needs to declare war, he happens to hold dual citizenship of the aggressing country, what happens?
 
We have seen people fighting extradition when they have committed crimes at home, Deya has been fighting the same in the USA for stealing and selling Kenyan children in the USA. The govt of Kenya has requested his extradition, suppose he had Amertican citizenship and denounced his Kenyan one, do you think he will ever face charges for stealing innocent children back in Kenya? Your bet is as good as mine, America will say he is American and cannot be extradited.
 
Perharps  what we should be debating is what extent should the restricctions apply. There is no way the President, Prime Minister, Vice President and other public officers who take oaths swear allegiance to  2 or 3 different countries to safeguard constitutions of such countries, a conflict will arise.
 
Let us not narrow this debate to one or two people and become personal with and and not rational and look at the wider picture. Let us look at the interest of Kenya first if we are genuine and not individual interests,the law is made for the good of society, the common good and not individual good.
 
Otieno Sungu.


From: barack abonyo <luo31@hotmail.com>
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Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 6:57:59 AM
Subject: [NewVisionKenya] RE: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very goodindeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

 

Bwana Oduor
Here you go
 
I gues we did not read section 78(2) carefully (See below). Many other sections are still go to bite. Please jregister as a member of Kenya global unity (www. kenyaglobalunity.com)
 
so that we can start fighting for our rights together. We need Canadian representatives 
 
Citizenship and leadership
78. (1) A person is not eligible for election or appointment to a State office unless
the person is a citizen of Kenya.
(2) A State officer or a member of the defence forces shall not hold dual
citizenship.
(3) Clauses (1) and (2) do not apply to—
(a) judges and members of commissions; or
(b) any person who has been made a citizen of another country by
operation of that country's law, without ability to opt out.
 
 
Advertise your business or donations to Kenyans locally and abroad for FREE at 
 
www.kenyaslist.com
 
Dr. Barack Otieno Abonyo
Associate Professor of Pharmacology
College of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences
Florida A and M University
1415 Martin Luther King Dr.
Tallahassee Fl, 32304
Tel:850-561-2553
     850-339-4806





 


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From: mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 03:38:59 +0000
Subject: Re: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very goodindeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

 
Dr Abonyo,

It's not the constitution itself, it's the interpretation at the Regulation stage that is proving to be contentious.
The constitution simply states that occupants of State Offices must be citizens of Kenya, and nothing else. The exclusion of dual citizens from the civil service is a creation of some minds at the Regulation stage. We just have to advocate against it.


Courage,
Oduor Maurice,
Owadg'Atieno ma yuor Atieno
Thuon wuod Ugenya-Ukwala

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


From: barack abonyo <luo31@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

 
Well well, the constitution miss ups is starting to show its ugly side. The fact of the matter is that we did not read the document thoroughly. Now it will start to bite and an elaborate process will be required to change anything.

 
 
Advertise your business or donations to Kenyans locally and abroad for FREE at 
 
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Dr. Barack Otieno Abonyo
Associate Professor of Pharmacology
College of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences
Florida A and M University
1415 Martin Luther King Dr.
Tallahassee Fl, 32304
Tel:850-561-2553
     850-339-4806





 

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From: mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:54:25 +0000
Subject: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

 
Jagem,

The constitution says that holders of State Offices must be Kenyan citizens. The same constitution also allows for dual citizenship.

I worked very hard to get my Canadian citizenship and I am not willing to give it up.

Jagem, if it's true the dual citizens are not allowed to occupy State Offices, then we should stop sending any money home; we should also withdraw our memberships from any Kenyan-based organization. There is no point for me to belong to a movement in Kenya if Kenya does not simply accept me as a citizen.

Thank God the truth of how things are is now coming out. I am resigning from all Kenyan-based organizations as of now and this mail should serve as a notice. Why bother? I will concentrate my efforts on private business as someone suggested here a few days ago.

No more Maurice J Oduor in politically related activities. I just want to apologize to all my colleagues in various movements. I am out and I wish them luck in transforming Kenya.

Courage,
Oduor Maurice


Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


From: Jagem K'Onyiego <jairuschurch@yahoo.com>
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:21:12 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

Otieno Sungu
 
Stop bringing public Office tribalism here. What does the constitution say? Does it demand that someone holding Dual Citizenship cannot hold public office? If not then why are you already "Bagua-ring" them. You must already know, by now, that the "Ndiasipora" (Diaspora) people hold a abig of clout, as their Constituency is the single biggest Forein revenue earner to the Kenyan Government. Usiwabague mapema hivyo!! Ama???
 
Jagem


From: otieno sungu <sunoti@yahoo.com>
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Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 4:41:34 AM
Subject: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

Njoroge,
 
Good question you ask here, why would we want foreignors to hold public office? Or, why would we want people who may ran away after commiting economic crimes because they have other nationalities?
 
If you want to hold public position, be loyal, first denounce your dual citizenship and come back and contest, that way, you owe unquestionable loyalty to Kenyan and the Kenyan people.
 
We do not want to play polygamy with political office. Othewise, remain a private citizen and enjoy even tripple citizenship is that helps your business and investments. Imagine if one is to negotiate a deal for us with a foreign government where they also hold citizenship? Isn't this a case of conflict of interest? Which side will he get the best deal for? Who will they be loyal to?
 
Otieno sungu


From: Njoroge Waithera <>
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Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 11:23:37 AM
Subject: [KOL] Re: [THE NYC:5237] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship

 
Jambo all,

I do not see a problem with this provision. Holding a public position is such a sacred privilege and needs to be by persons of impeccable loyalty! Moreover, this provision was as is the entire period we conducted extensive constitutional debate on this fora; therefore I do not understand why people are sulking over it now. Why would anyone want to serve to publics?

The principle behind Dual Citizenship is to allow Kenya nationals resident in other countries to access opportunities that they would otherwise not access in those countries by virtue of them being non-citizens and still retain their Kenyan citizenship with all benefits and rights safe for right to be elected or appointed into public service.

Unless there is something I am not seeing in the bigger picture, I see nothing wrong.

Njoroge Waithera.
 



"True generosity consists precisely in fighting to destroy the causes which nourish false charity" Paulo Freire




From: "mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca" <mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca>
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Sent: Fri, 22 October, 2010 9:19:52
Subject: [THE NYC:5237] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship


This may mean that my Canadian citizenship has to go, something I worked so hard to acquire. Life sure sucks.

Courage,
Oduor Maurice Owadg'Atieno

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

From: Okiya Omtatah Okoiti <omtatah@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Restrictions on dual citizenship

From the Constitution:

Citizenship and leadership
78. (1) A person is not eligible for election or appointment to a State office
unless the person is a citizen of Kenya.
(2) A State officer or a member of the defence forces shall not hold dual
citizenship.
(3) Clauses (1) and (2) do not apply to—
(a) judges and members of commissions; or
(b) any person who has been made a citizen of another country by
operation of that country's law, without ability to opt out.

Further to 3, consolation is that Councillors are not state officers so dual citizens can gun for these elective posts if Parliament legislates to have them.

Omtatah



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Re: The Rule of Law under the New Constitution.

Buiyo,

The only thing that can help Ruto is getting his name cleared from the mess. The sooner he does this the better.

Instead of assembling people the Kimunya way, he need to start assembling good lawyers to represent him. Not the political lawayers though. He will come out a hero if he is cleared of any wrong doing.

Thanks

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Adagi, Nelson /BDF NBO <Nelson.Adagi@beiersdorf.com> wrote:

 

I can see Hon Ruto chest thumping in Jail


From: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com [mailto:mlalahoi@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dommie Yambo
Sent: 25 October 2010 10:47
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Cc: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com


Subject: Re: The Rule of Law under the New Constitution.

 

It baffles me recalling the recent events that got Ruto out.  First  Hon Karua challenges Rt. Hon Raila why no action had been taken against Hon. Ruto in light of the new constitution. As expected, Rt. Hon Raila reminds all that the courts were yet to make their judgement and and hence no action could be taken untill such a time. Then in just about 12 days, the Gicheru led courts became sooooo "efficient" (as eficuent as they were at the 2007 swearing in) and  quickly found a solution to a case that had eluded them since 2004, and could now find Hon Ruto guilt!  Wow!  What was the new evidence or inspiration for that matter that now made judgement possible in just 12 days?  Could it be a case of deliberatly going out to make a bad situation worse not for the purposes of fulfilling on the new constitution, but rather to shake certain equilibriums ahead if 2012?  The person who needs to be wise here is Ruto. He should do away with chest thumbing and think hard, realy hard.  He is a pawn in a dihonest political game.

 

 My two pence too. 

 

 Dommie   

Sent from my IPhon

 


On 23 Oct 2010, at 08:37 AM, lonyango@gerties.org wrote:

Oh maina stop adding fire wood to the burning fire be a man of peace and respect ur elders sp that ur days can be added

Sent from my BlackBerry®


From: Buiywo Siongiki <kubesto@gmail.com>

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:49:23 +0300

Subject: Re: The Rule of Law under the New Constitution.

 

dera Maina,

am happy and wholeheartedly for your feelings. Now allow me too to experess my feeelings.

Yes well said and done, if i may ask who is the complainant in the Ruto's case of having been sold a forest land? Kenya or KPC or the Environment Ministry.

2/ isn't it always equally corrupt for one to buy and (in this case going to the extent of paying as much as upto 272 Millions shillings)
and as such the complainant shoul;d also face the LAW?

3/ We are all aware of the "sheep being fattened" and if may explain the riddle...the fattener must be Baba Jimmy and Liutenants.....and the sheep is awaiting slaughter. To my opinion Ruto is being used as a sacrificial lamb whilst fattening the Sheep so that the populists see it as a fight against Ruto n tribesmen.

4/ i presume once the sheep is ready for slaughter (somehwre neer 2011 Dec to 2012 before May) Samoei will join the fattener an d liutenants and all in unison celebrate and share the sweet bacon.

 

 

Watch this space.

 

Buiywo

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:24 PM, maina joseph <kam2202003@yahoo.com> wrote:

Allex+Guys,

Do you notice how convenient Allex avoids mentioning Raila Odinga by his name in his email and mentions him softly as co-principal only once and no more than that!!. Whom are you avoiding to hurt my friend. And mentions the name Kibaki  4times!!. He continues to rubbish Kibaki over Ruto suspension severally. Who does not know Raila-Ruto political wars. Was it not Raila who had earlier allegedly sacked W.Ruto? Remember the censure motion in Parliament? What about heated ODM PG and NEC meetings coz of Ruto factor.

Pre-2011 politics have started and will get stronger by 2012 general elections. Watch out for the big loser. The sheep is being fattened!

I know where your heart lies in this matter and that's why you just say "co-principal" Hold your horses. Its difficult to adopt your political protectionism upto 2012 elections. Its very tiresome. You will definitely break coz D-day is coming and coming very first. Right or wrong, Ruto factor (and plse note that Ruto is part of Ruto factor) will hit back very very hard.

Be fairly balanced my friend. Dont force Kibaki and by extension his lieutenants, to wholly carry the cross. Kenyans are intelligent. By the way Raila was very happy on Mashujaa Day!! Did you notice? That's how he wanted things go. His cronies are cool.

Any hard feelings Allex?

Maina



--- On Thu, 10/21/10, jt okinda <archjt2004@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: jt okinda <archjt2004@yahoo.com>


Subject: Re: The Rule of Law under the New Constitution.

To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 12:21 AM

 

Alex,

Let all of us be sincere if we have to move this country forward positively. There was a case going on at the appeal level. It was only logical that the decision of the court be awaited before any action against Ruto is taken. The court decided a week ago that Ruto has a case to answer at the magistrates court which was trying the fraud case. It is now upon Ruto and co-accused to convince the magistrate`s court that they did not commit a crime!

The current constitution is very clear on action to be taken against a public officer with such cases in court. All the President has done is to respect the constitution.Why blame him?

OKINDA JT

 


From: Alex Tallam <alextallam@yahoo.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, October 20, 2010 11:05:59 AM
Subject: Re: The Rule of Law under the New Constitution.

The suspension of Hon William Ruto from the cabinet is more of a populist act than a committment to fight corruption by Kibaki!! Ruto may have participated in the corrupt land deal and so he should face the courts, but then if we look at Kibaki's past in the fight against corruption, then it comes out clearly as to why he took the action at this late hour in the day. Ruto's case has been dragging on for the last 9 years and he was even appointed a minister while the case was still going on, so if Kibaki and his co principal was serious about fighting craft, then he should not have been appointed in the first place!!!

 

This administration is replete with unresolved corruption cases where the public has lost billions of shillings and yet it is a well known fact that some of Kibaki's foot soldiers are deeply involved in corruption but he did nothing, yes he suspended some of them, but they were back in goverment after getting cleared by commissions which were set up by Kibaki himself and whose findings has never been made public!!!

 

Here is a guy who is desperate to hold on to anything which can help him leave a legacy, and some populist actions like suspending Ruto, can help him achieve that!! it is a well known fact that Hon Ruto is one of the most hated (rightly or wrongly)politicians we have today and hitting him below the belt can generate alot of excitement both ways (negative/positive). I don't believe Kibaki is acting in good faith, in any case, the old constitution gave him immence powers to do literaly anything he wanted done including firing corrupt individuals from his government, but he has never done that for his entire close to 10 years now!!

 

Otherwise if Ruto is found to have participated in the corrupt land deal, then he should squarely face justice, but the he should not be alone, the whole lot who participated in the transaction should be put in their defence otherwise it will be taken by some people to a selective application of the law.

 

 


From: Jagem K'Onyiego <jairuschurch@yahoo.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, October 20, 2010 2:22:03 AM
Subject: The Rule of Law under the New Constitution.

Ladies and Gentlemen(s)

 

Since Hon Ruto was told by the Judges that he has a case to answer in Court Concerning a parcel of land that he and others participated in selling to a certain firm, where the sellers ended up raking Millions of Shillings, money that lawfully should not have gone to their pockets, many people have come into the Forum with Very interesting postings.

 

A number of them have come with Daggers drawn in defense of Ruto, while others have posted their thoughts, which clearly show that they are ululating, about Ruto, a Minister, being brought to answer charges in a Court of Law. While this has gone on, I see those for and against Ruto, at times to tend to be very emotional and passionate. This maybe so, but we must remember that, a few things have changed since the introduction of the new Constitution.

 

The New Constitution promised to protect the individual rights of the Citizens. A section in that Constitution also promises the Citizens that it will fight and protect them from Corrupt individuals. The Constitution also states clearly, that, a person mentioned in a Corruption case, which is before a Court of law, if that person is holding a Government office, he/she must resign.

 

The above is what the constitution provides. Now, Ruto's case goes against all these clauses and therefore what is befalling him is as the Law demands.

If all Walalahoi and YPs respected the law to be impartial in this New Constitutional dispensation, then all should have kept quiet and waited for the law to take its course. It is only in this way that Sanity will come back to Kenya. Haven't the Citizens had enough melodrama, with "Chest thumping individuals", who often, operated like they were immune to and above the law? Would we want that situation to continue or would we want to see some sobriety about the rule of law set in?

 

Over to you Forumists

 

Jagem

 

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Re: STATISTICS SOFTWARES -SPSS. STATA & SPS

TRY KCA UNIVERSITY KISUMU

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 2:57 PM, M nzoro <giclans@gmail.com> wrote:

Which collage trans this statistics software........SPSS. STATA & SPS

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Re: siaya county!



Jt and Lee,

I no longer care about these things. I am a dual citizen Kenyan/Canadian and I am told that I am not eligible for elected or State Office position.
I am therefore gracefully bowing out of these things.

I am no longer getting involved in political or developmental activities in Kenya. I do want to interfere with Kenya's internal affairs. I have put a stop to all projects I had on the go including all applications I had made for donor funding to support small businesses there.

Good luck to you guys in Siaya County.


Courage,
Oduor. Maurice,
Owadg'Atieno ma yuor Atieno

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


From: jt okinda <archjt2004@yahoo.com>
Sender: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 00:52:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: siaya county!

I find it unfortunate that we are not positively focused on the issues to do with Siaya County. Most of the comments are intended to tackle personality leadership rather than crucial issues that will make positive changes to our economic/social well being as residents of Siaya County.

My take is that we need to undertake baseline survey in order that we have data on the county which can help us in tackling all pertaining issues.Those of us endowed with resorces should come together and contribute towards commissioning consultants who can undertake the said baseline survey. Without data we are all talking shops!

OKINDA JT

From: Lee Makwiny <amosogal@gmail.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 8:14:34 AM
Subject: Re: siaya county!

Oduor,

Do you have some interest in Siaya County. Is that the reason you dont like Prof. Oduol.

We will support you. But based on what i saw in 2007, Siaya electorate will always elect the 'highest bidder'. Edwin Yinda bought Alego Usonga. Mwanga almost bought Ugenya!

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:03 AM, <mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca> wrote:
Albert,

I have good news for you. Siaya County is comimng into good things as of 2012.
We will no longer allow such a proud area to remain a laughingstock in the Republic.

Siaya has the most PhDs per square mile in Kenya and we intend to tap into that resource to build a caring and progressive society. We have natural resources and our land is fertile and strong. We just need the political will to stand up, raise our hands and say "enough is enough, we are moving ahead". I, Maurice J Oduor, Owadg'Atieno, do solemny swear that I will do my very best to help bring about that political will, protect the our integrity.

I will never abandon Siaya kadana; meaning, ok anyal wito Siaya kadana.


Courage,
Oduor Maurice

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


From: Albert Bandura <albandura@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:08:26 +0300
Subject: Re: siaya county!

I worked for three years in that area and was amazed at the number of experts, professionals, academicians and technical experts that hail from there but was equally baffled by their ineptitude in so far as translating skills and knowledge to development is! The county like the other Luo Nyanza ones will continue to drag behind unless there is a complete change of mind-set.
AB

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:15 PM, antony kochiyo <tonny_kochiyo@yahoo.com> wrote:


by the way Siaya has a great potential but people do not eat potential

In Siaya county, one sees a unique area, you  admire the sons of this soil who
lead as far as the white house and you  look at those who dug the foundation of
the opposition politics and ask  why Charity could not just begin at home!!!

this county, whose beaches bathe in the  waters of  Africas largest fresh water
body, whose potential is forever  preserved by the brilliance of its men and
women and whose future is as  promising as the wasted years past, must never
have its dream deferred.

Therefore, at a time when cock crows for  change, when the hour beckons for
actions, when the bell rings for better  leadership, I choose to break the
silence and propose that we the  people should have town hall meetings of all
candidates. listen to them  how they want to serve us and their work plans then
choose from that since ALL the proposed people  here meet the requirements shall
we?

Lets not think foe others by imagining that we can just say so and so tosha!!!


May the blessings of our binding document the new   constitution, the love of
our citizens the patriots and the commitment  of the good leadership deliver us
to the promised land- our desired  destination!!!

May as many as of this useful opinion say iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Resting my case,

I remain the one among many patriots,

Kochiyo




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Breaking News: Nairobi Mayor Geophrey Majiwa has been picked from his residence by anti-corruption agents over the City Hall cemetery saga....

Nairobi mayor arrested over Sh283m graft case

By SAM KIPLAGAT and MATTHEW RINGA
Posted Monday, October 25 2010 at 09:06

Nairobi Mayor Geophrey Majiwa was on Monday arrested by anti-corruption agents over the controversial purchase of a piece of land for use as a cemetery.

Officials from the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission (Kacc) went to the mayor's residence in Nairobi's South 'C' at 7am while accompanied by police officers and took him away to the their headquarters where he is currently being held.

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Re: [NewVisionKenya] RE: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very goodindeed for public office and county loyalty!!!


 

The constitution is so clear and i support the stand that a PUBLIC OFFICER must not hold dual citizenship. One must denounce his second citenship to be a public servant. We cannot exhaust the benefits of this clause. Public intereste overides personal and selfish interest. As much as Kenyans in the diaspora have been given some priviledges, we cannot expose our country to an extent that we blind ourself from the risks of dual citizenship. A number of Somalis have got Kenyan citizenship, and still transoit to other countries to attain the same through alienship and finally as a total citizen. In such a case they hold three citizenship. The result is the same as those sOMALI-Americans who are fuelling and funding the Al Shabaab and other militia groups in Somalia. They can reside in three countries bila hussles, and commit all sort of crimes then move to another.

 

Limitations to dual citizenship is necessary for anyone wanting to serve in a public office in Kenya. Lets respect the law as it was passed and we move forward to more progressive issues.

 

Regards

Kombo Elijah


From: otieno sungu <sunoti@yahoo.com>
To: NewVisionKenya@yahoogroups.com; "africa-oped@yahoogroups.com" <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>; mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; nyciv <nyciv@googlegroups.com>; vuguvugumashinani@yahoogroups.com
Cc: newvision <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>; bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com; youngprofessionals <youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>; kenya electoral commision <info@iiec.or.ke>; the speaker <clerk@parliament.go.ke>; kptj-communications@fahamu.org; njorogep2003@yahoo.com
Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 11:49:58 AM
Subject: Re: [NewVisionKenya] RE: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very goodindeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

 

Dear Barrack and all,
 
I think we are missing the mark big time. Let us consider a few things. The law allows for dual citizenship, you can be one, but the law tries to protect Kenyan interest by making certain restrictions.
 
Let me pose the following questions, can we have a President who swears allegiance to 2, 3 or 5 diifferent countries? Why would this be tragic? Suppose Kenyans security is threatened to the extent the President needs to declare war, he happens to hold dual citizenship of the aggressing country, what happens?
 
We have seen people fighting extradition when they have committed crimes at home, Deya has been fighting the same in the USA for stealing and selling Kenyan children in the USA. The govt of Kenya has requested his extradition, suppose he had Amertican citizenship and denounced his Kenyan one, do you think he will ever face charges for stealing innocent children back in Kenya? Your bet is as good as mine, America will say he is American and cannot be extradited.
 
Perharps  what we should be debating is what extent should the restricctions apply. There is no way the President, Prime Minister, Vice President and other public officers who take oaths swear allegiance to  2 or 3 different countries to safeguard constitutions of such countries, a conflict will arise.
 
Let us not narrow this debate to one or two people and become personal with and and not rational and look at the wider picture. Let us look at the interest of Kenya first if we are genuine and not individual interests,the law is made for the good of society, the common good and not individual good.
 
Otieno Sungu.


From: barack abonyo <luo31@hotmail.com>
To: "africa-oped@yahoogroups.com" <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>; mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; nyciv <nyciv@googlegroups.com>; vuguvugumashinani@yahoogroups.com
Cc: newvision <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>; bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com; youngprofessionals <youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>; kenya electoral commision <info@iiec.or.ke>; the speaker <clerk@parliament.go.ke>; kptj-communications@fahamu.org; njorogep2003@yahoo.com
Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 6:57:59 AM
Subject: [NewVisionKenya] RE: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very goodindeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

 

Bwana Oduor
Here you go
 
I gues we did not read section 78(2) carefully (See below). Many other sections are still go to bite. Please jregister as a member of Kenya global unity (www. kenyaglobalunity.com)
 
so that we can start fighting for our rights together. We need Canadian representatives 
 
Citizenship and leadership
78. (1) A person is not eligible for election or appointment to a State office unless
the person is a citizen of Kenya.
(2) A State officer or a member of the defence forces shall not hold dual
citizenship.
(3) Clauses (1) and (2) do not apply to—
(a) judges and members of commissions; or
(b) any person who has been made a citizen of another country by
operation of that country's law, without ability to opt out.
 
 
Advertise your business or donations to Kenyans locally and abroad for FREE at 
 
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Dr. Barack Otieno Abonyo
Associate Professor of Pharmacology
College of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences
Florida A and M University
1415 Martin Luther King Dr.
Tallahassee Fl, 32304
Tel:850-561-2553
     850-339-4806





 


To: africa-oped@yahoogroups.com; mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; nyciv@googlegroups.com; vuguvugumashinani@yahoogroups.com
CC: newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com; bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com; youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com; info@iiec.or.ke; clerk@parliament.go.ke; kptj-communications@fahamu.org; njorogep2003@yahoo.com
From: mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 03:38:59 +0000
Subject: Re: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very goodindeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

 
Dr Abonyo,

It's not the constitution itself, it's the interpretation at the Regulation stage that is proving to be contentious.
The constitution simply states that occupants of State Offices must be citizens of Kenya, and nothing else. The exclusion of dual citizens from the civil service is a creation of some minds at the Regulation stage. We just have to advocate against it.


Courage,
Oduor Maurice,
Owadg'Atieno ma yuor Atieno
Thuon wuod Ugenya-Ukwala

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


From: barack abonyo <luo31@hotmail.com>
Sender: africa-oped@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 03:30:31 +0000
To: africa-oped@yahoogroups.com<africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>; <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>; <kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>; nyciv<nyciv@googlegroups.com>; <vuguvugumashinani@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: africa-oped@yahoogroups.com
Cc: newvision<newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>; <bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com>; youngprofessionals<youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>; kenya electoralcommision<info@iiec.or.ke>; the speaker<clerk@parliament.go.ke>; <kptj-communications@fahamu.org>; <njorogep2003@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

 
Well well, the constitution miss ups is starting to show its ugly side. The fact of the matter is that we did not read the document thoroughly. Now it will start to bite and an elaborate process will be required to change anything.

 
 
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To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; nyciv@googlegroups.com; africa-oped@yahoogroups.com; VuguVuguMashinani@yahoogroups.com
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From: mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:54:25 +0000
Subject: [africa-oped] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

 
Jagem,

The constitution says that holders of State Offices must be Kenyan citizens. The same constitution also allows for dual citizenship.

I worked very hard to get my Canadian citizenship and I am not willing to give it up.

Jagem, if it's true the dual citizens are not allowed to occupy State Offices, then we should stop sending any money home; we should also withdraw our memberships from any Kenyan-based organization. There is no point for me to belong to a movement in Kenya if Kenya does not simply accept me as a citizen.

Thank God the truth of how things are is now coming out. I am resigning from all Kenyan-based organizations as of now and this mail should serve as a notice. Why bother? I will concentrate my efforts on private business as someone suggested here a few days ago.

No more Maurice J Oduor in politically related activities. I just want to apologize to all my colleagues in various movements. I am out and I wish them luck in transforming Kenya.

Courage,
Oduor Maurice


Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


From: Jagem K'Onyiego <jairuschurch@yahoo.com>
Sender: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:21:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>; <kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>; <nyciv@googlegroups.com>; <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>; <VuguVuguMashinani@yahoogroups.com>
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Cc: newvision<newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>; <bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com>; youngprofessionals<youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>; kenya electoral commision<info@iiec.or.ke>; the speaker<clerk@parliament.go.ke>; <kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>; KPTJ<KPTJ-communications@fahamu.org>; <njorogep2003@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

Otieno Sungu
 
Stop bringing public Office tribalism here. What does the constitution say? Does it demand that someone holding Dual Citizenship cannot hold public office? If not then why are you already "Bagua-ring" them. You must already know, by now, that the "Ndiasipora" (Diaspora) people hold a abig of clout, as their Constituency is the single biggest Forein revenue earner to the Kenyan Government. Usiwabague mapema hivyo!! Ama???
 
Jagem


From: otieno sungu <sunoti@yahoo.com>
To: kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; nyciv@googlegroups.com; mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; africa-oped@yahoogroups.com; VuguVuguMashinani@yahoogroups.com
Cc: newvision <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>; bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com; youngprofessionals <youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>; kenya electoral commision <info@iiec.or.ke>; the speaker <clerk@parliament.go.ke>; kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; KPTJ <KPTJ-communications@fahamu.org>; njorogep2003@yahoo.com
Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 4:41:34 AM
Subject: Restrictions on dual citizenship-Very good indeed for public office and county loyalty!!!

Njoroge,
 
Good question you ask here, why would we want foreignors to hold public office? Or, why would we want people who may ran away after commiting economic crimes because they have other nationalities?
 
If you want to hold public position, be loyal, first denounce your dual citizenship and come back and contest, that way, you owe unquestionable loyalty to Kenyan and the Kenyan people.
 
We do not want to play polygamy with political office. Othewise, remain a private citizen and enjoy even tripple citizenship is that helps your business and investments. Imagine if one is to negotiate a deal for us with a foreign government where they also hold citizenship? Isn't this a case of conflict of interest? Which side will he get the best deal for? Who will they be loyal to?
 
Otieno sungu


From: Njoroge Waithera <>
To: nyciv@googlegroups.com; mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; africa-oped@yahoogroups.com
Cc: newvision <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>; bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com; youngprofessionals <youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>; kenya electoral commision <info@iiec.or.ke>; the speaker <clerk@parliament.go.ke>; kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com; KPTJ <KPTJ-communications@fahamu.org>
Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 11:23:37 AM
Subject: [KOL] Re: [THE NYC:5237] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship

 
Jambo all,

I do not see a problem with this provision. Holding a public position is such a sacred privilege and needs to be by persons of impeccable loyalty! Moreover, this provision was as is the entire period we conducted extensive constitutional debate on this fora; therefore I do not understand why people are sulking over it now. Why would anyone want to serve to publics?

The principle behind Dual Citizenship is to allow Kenya nationals resident in other countries to access opportunities that they would otherwise not access in those countries by virtue of them being non-citizens and still retain their Kenyan citizenship with all benefits and rights safe for right to be elected or appointed into public service.

Unless there is something I am not seeing in the bigger picture, I see nothing wrong.

Njoroge Waithera.
 



"True generosity consists precisely in fighting to destroy the causes which nourish false charity" Paulo Freire




From: "mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca" <mauricejoduor@yahoo.ca>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; africa-oped@yahoogroups.com; nyciv <nyciv@googlegroups.com>
Cc: newvision <newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>; bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com; youngprofessionals <youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>; kenya electoral commision <info@iiec.or.ke>; the speaker <clerk@parliament.go.ke>; kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 22 October, 2010 9:19:52
Subject: [THE NYC:5237] Re: Restrictions on dual citizenship


This may mean that my Canadian citizenship has to go, something I worked so hard to acquire. Life sure sucks.

Courage,
Oduor Maurice Owadg'Atieno

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

From: Okiya Omtatah Okoiti <omtatah@yahoo.com>
Sender: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:34:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>; nyciv<nyciv@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Cc: newvision<newvisionkenya@yahoogroups.com>; <bungelamwanainchi@yahoo.com>; <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>; youngprofessionals<youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>; kenya electoral commision<info@iiec.or.ke>; the speaker<clerk@parliament.go.ke>; <kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com>; africa-oped@yahoogroups.com<africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Restrictions on dual citizenship

From the Constitution:

Citizenship and leadership
78. (1) A person is not eligible for election or appointment to a State office
unless the person is a citizen of Kenya.
(2) A State officer or a member of the defence forces shall not hold dual
citizenship.
(3) Clauses (1) and (2) do not apply to—
(a) judges and members of commissions; or
(b) any person who has been made a citizen of another country by
operation of that country's law, without ability to opt out.

Further to 3, consolation is that Councillors are not state officers so dual citizens can gun for these elective posts if Parliament legislates to have them.

Omtatah



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