Re: Ruto to face fraud charges, court rules

Migosi Sagongonyi,

I dont think there is any serious person who would disagree with you on KHRC reports and others. I am with you 100%. Most of it is hearsay and it will be the work of Ocampo or the judges to decide what is admissible as evidence. 

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 1:44 AM, sagongonyi chemurwok <chemurwok@gmail.com> wrote:

Kuria, your apology is accepted; it is good to own up when we
slip.....you are a true professional and a real man. Real men accept
when they make mistakes and say, man i think i was wrong on this one.

Now back to Rutto, my argument on the two cases that this guy is
facing is that: 1. He might have gone to the Constitutional court to
seek further interpretation of the verdict that came out from the
lower courts. Our judicial system has a provision that allows
aggrieved persons including you and me, to do so. Why should we just
conclude that he wanted to prolong the case? I was just trying to see
it from the other side of the coin.

2. On the reports from KHRC, Waki, newspapers, etc; I do not think
they are conclusive as they are. These reports were done under
different circumstances....KHRC report was done during and immediately
after the PEV. There were a lot of emotions and I believe that report
has a lot of rumours and hearsay. I have read part of it and I did
come across an allegation of oathing in Kipkelion by the Kalenjins
before the violence broke out, presided over by Rutto. That is a big
lie, Kalenjins do not take oaths. There are so many stories in those
reports similar to this allegation that do not add up. That is why
Ocampo is coming over here to do proper investigations for information
that can stand in a court of law. My view is that we do not point
fingures because of these reports; let us wait for Ocampo and the
courts to do their work. I rest my case.

On 10/21/10, Kuria-Mwangi <kjmwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sagongonyi,
> I never meant to slight you or insult with the standard eight drop out piece
> and so accept my apologies if that is how it came out. I am not the type who
> will insult others to win a point but sometimes the devil makes me right
> things which are not clear or can hurt other people's feeling. For this, the
> blame goes to the evil one not me.  I meant anybody able to read newspapers
> can tell who is on Ocampo's mark list. Ruto and UK went to court to get
> their name expunged and so this shows that somebody or some people put their
> names on the KHRC or other lists. Whether they are innocent or quilty is
> another thing and so if you are saying that they should not be judged quilty
> now I agree with you 100%.
>
> Ruto like everybody else must be presumed innocent until proven quilty by
> the court system(s). Ruto must also be treated like everybody else and so if
> they are selective, they must be condemned. What is unacceptable is the
> arguement that other individuals must be charged too before Ruto can be
> hauled to court. Somebody just told us that if a thief is caught and taken
> to court, we dont demand that other thieves also be caught and taken to jail
> before this thief''s case can proceed. We can demand that everybody faces
> justice without also demanding that others already facing the music be given
> a holiday.
>
> Kuria
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:53 AM, sagongonyi chemurwok
> <chemurwok@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> @Kuria, all those reports you have mentioned are just that....reports.
>> Some of them are political reports meant to smear other people's
>> names. If you believe in most of them, you will be in for a rude
>> shock. Let us not be too fast to drive our mouths into overdrive and
>> say things that we may regret later. I know you are trying slight me
>> with this std 8 talk but I will not bring myself to responding to
>> such. I leave it to your consciense.
>>
>> @ Korir, Your opinion on my posting is as expected. Give me one
>> sentence on my posting that made you jump to the conclusion that I am
>> a Rutto supporter. On the other hand, why do you think it is wrong to
>> be a Ruto supporter? how many other scandals are you aware of apart
>> from Ruto's case? how many ministers are serving in the current gvt
>> and we know that they have stolen? How many pretenders are baying for
>> Kosgey's blood because he appointed one of his own yet they were
>> silent when one of their own appointed someone from their community?
>> Let me tell you something brother, the fight against corruption in
>> Kenya does not exist.....it only exist on paper.  Lumumba's postion is
>> just a PR thing. Corruption does not mean the same thing to everybody
>> if you get what i mean. Interpreting it depends on who you are and
>> what powers you have. If you did not know that, start learning from
>> today.
>>
>>
>> On 10/19/10, Kuria-Mwangi <kjmwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Sagongonyi,
>> > I hear on the first part of your arguement. Since we dont know what is
>> the
>> > motive, the best position is yours. Give
>> > the fellow the benefit of time.
>> >
>> > On the last part, I would urge you to read UK and Ruto's lips and then
>> read
>> > lips of those who compiled the KHRC reports among others. Also read
>> Waki's
>> > lips and the reports in the newspapers. If you dont have the KHRC
>> > report,
>> > let me know and I will send it to you
>> > kiprivate. You then know why Ruto and UK have tried to have their names
>> > purged from the reports. I never said he will be taken to the Hague
>> unless
>> > your english teacher misled you. I said "hoping that he will not be
>> > airlifted before then".  The newspapers reports are written in black and
>> > white and even somebody who flopped in class 8 and can read and tell you
>> who
>> > are likely to be airlifted.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:34 AM, sagongonyi chemurwok
>> > <chemurwok@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >> Kuria-Mwangi,
>> >>
>> >> I do not think Ruto's intention in this case was to delay justice but
>> >> rather to seek justice. Our judicial system has a provision for one to
>> >> seek justice by way of referencing his case to the constitutional
>> >> courts. Our forefathers must have had a reason for provisioning that
>> >> in our system. Ruto did not ask the constitutional judges to delay
>> >> their judgement......they delayed because they are either incompetent
>> >> or political. When one looks at the decision of these judges in Ruto's
>> >> case, one wonders why it had to wait for all these years. The
>> >> judgement looks too simple.... it does not make sense to me. Why are
>> >> so many cases pending in courts? in my opinion, there is a lot to do
>> >> with politics and incompetence or may be these guys are just too
>> >> demoralized. I do not know what you meant with Ruto being airlifted
>> >> before 2012, are you by any chance privy to Ocampo's docs? may be you
>> >> can tell us more about who is on that list.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 10/18/10, Kuria-Mwangi <kjmwangi@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Hi Mburi,
>> >> > You are right about the judicial system. That need to be fixed.
>> >> > Unfortunately we can only sympathize with Ruto. He cannot use the
>> delay
>> >> in
>> >> > justice
>> >> > as an argument unless the law has such provisions (as in the statue
>> >> > of
>> >> > limitation-Sp). In this case, Ruto did what the politicians do, hide
>> >> under
>> >> > the constitutional interpretation in order to buy time and may be
>> escape
>> >> > justice. If he really wanted this case concluded first, he should
>> >> > have
>> >> gone
>> >> > ahead and demand a quick settlement of the case. He took the longer
>> path
>> >> and
>> >> > should take the bite. He should avoid politicizing and demand that
>> >> > the
>> >> case
>> >> > be concluded as first as possible. Unfortunately that means that he
>> will
>> >> be
>> >> > required to step-aside. Another delay like the one he plans to have
>> >> > by
>> >> way
>> >> > of appealing will see the theft case hanging on his neck by 2012
>> (hoping
>> >> > that he will not be airlifted before then).
>> >> >
>> >> > We can only pray for brother Bill for the tribulations to ease.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Eric Wabwaya Mburi
>> >> > <ewabwaya@hotmail.com>wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Kuria,
>> >> >> How are you keeping my bother?I hope well.I am reading alot of
>> >> >> malice
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> this case of brother Hon Ruto Samoei.Since the year 2001 what have
>> the
>> >> >> honorable judges been waiting for to deliver such a verdict.?Anyone
>> >> would
>> >> >> read malice even if the case is water tight
>> >> >> Ja'kamburi
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------
>> >> >> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:38:34 -0400
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Subject: Ruto to face fraud charges, court rules
>> >> >> From: kjmwangi@gmail.com
>> >> >> To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> CC: Youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com;
>> africa-oped@yahoogroups.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Oh not another punch. What is happening to our brother in Christ? Is
>> he
>> >> >> being finished politically as he alleges or
>> >> >> he is facing a bad luck after another. This is too much for our
>> brother
>> >> in
>> >> >> Christ.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Higher Education minister William Ruto will face a Sh96m fraud case
>> >> >> following a ruling by a constitutional court Friday.
>> >> >> A three judge bench declined to grant Mr Ruto prayers in a case
>> >> involving
>> >> >> the sale of Ngong Forest land to the Kenya Pipeline Company nine
>> years
>> >> >> ago.
>> >> >> Through his lawyer, Katwa Kigen, Mr Ruto said the case was meant to
>> >> finish
>> >> >> him politically, was discriminatory and constituted an infringement
>> of
>> >> his
>> >> >> rights.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/1033706/-/11j4c3oz/-/index.html
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
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>> >> >>
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