Tuesday, July 27, 2010

Re: [KOL] Re: Gitari, Njoya invite 'No' clerics to debate on 'truth'

I still feel the call for this debate lacks meat. It will be a contest not a sober discussion. By the way, going to school doesnt make one learned but educated.
 
You may have papers and be dwarfed -
Read religious books but lack revelation - Askofu et al
Compose a song but lack lilt - Meru Rally
Shout for or againist KATIBA but not vote -
 
Again,
 
You may have titles but no papers - several clegy men
Have cadence but unable to compose the song
Have Revelation but be assumed - may be Reuben
Listen and act on KATIBA - Local Kenyans
 
 


 
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:35 PM, killion ooko nyamwanga <killionooko@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Brother Ongaro
 
As much I respect your fundamental right as a citizen of Kenya to air your views on any aspect of national matter, the writing is on the wall and some charactors in the current domain are irreparable.
 
Let me give you an issue for you to mitigate and let us know from your own intelligence whether there is any difference you know.
 
In flying planes, we have pilots, starting with al icence called PPL, CPL, ATPL and so on. These are all pilots. But a pilot with ATPL is more qualified than all the other pilots below as I have put them. He has passed all the tests that if I am to tell you how those test are called, you will get confused until after the big day for Kenya.
 
We also have drivers and you cann't compare Class E and ABCE. Some of them are fake driving licences from the famous river road
Therefore don't compare degrees of Dr. Njoya and Bishop Gitari in theology with these other ones, 85% of these titles are fake and I can assure you of that. A degree can be a paper as you call it. But it depends where one gets it, with River Road University being one of them. Please give us something tangible to swallow and digest.
 
Hallo green Kenya
 
Jakasrime kosoko
N'Djamena
Chad

From: Jonah Ogaro <jonahogaro@hotmail.com>
To: mlalahoi mlalahoi <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 27 July, 2010 7:46:16
Subject: RE: [KOL] Re: Gitari, Njoya invite 'No' clerics to debate on 'truth'

Quite funny. Some people here think that UoN is the best University on earth. You can have a degree and not have an education. Afterall, people degree by memorizing what other people have done. A degree is not eveything.
 
The first man to have a degree was taught by someone who did not have one.

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:26:19 -0400
Subject: Re: [KOL] Re: Gitari, Njoya invite 'No' clerics to debate on 'truth'
From: kjmwangi@gmail.com
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com

Ndugu Killion,
I didnt know that you are in Chad. I will stop complaining of the Baltimore heat because I know it would be a joke there.
 
I agree with you. Gone are the days when theology was a serious course and one with post graduate studies in that area worked as an adjunct at the univerties. Some of these Bishops have not even stepped in a college offering divinity leave alone theology. People like Gitari studied at UON and then went to study theology. You tell the difference between Muge, Gitari, Okulu and others who studied theology and some folks who graduated from street preaching to indoor preaching and then gave themselves those huge titles.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 3:53 PM, killion ooko nyamwanga <killionooko@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Ndugu Kuria
 
It is worth your word, I would imagine how the CVs of these people look like including those who call themselves Presidents sijui of what. The truth is that these folks can not match the standards of Dr. Timothy Njoya and Bishop Gitari. Both men have clean distinctions in their quest for change in this country. I did serve in that regime where in every place there were people planted to monitor other people's speech.
 
I dare any one to come and tell us what struggle somebody like Wanjiru has done for this country except telling her followers sometimes back. "I am not beautiful or how do you see me" and the flock yelled Yes you are. Katiba sio beauty contest, it is the destiny of Kenyans and not a joke for people to look malicous with one particular section of the draft which they can not even explain what wordings or changes could have been made better to be accepted. Only beating their chests.
 
If a whole Bishop, can use money given to him to take as a contribution for hospital bill for a deceased mother and instead uses the money to spray paint his car, do we know where we are being taken by these fake tittles?
 
Katiba ni sasa and Kenya will go green on the 4th of August 2010.
 
Jakasrime Kosoko
N'Djamena
Chad

From: Kuria-Mwangi <kjmwangi@gmail.com>
To: kenyaonline@yahoogroups.com
Cc: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; NewVisionKenya@yahoogroups.com; youngprofessionals.ke@gmail.com; youngkenyansforchange@yahoogroups.com; mwananchi@egroups.com; mwanyagetinge@yahoogroups.com; KCA <kca_main@yahoogroups.com>; Africa-Oped <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 26 July, 2010 17:45:56
Subject: Re: [KOL] Re: Gitari, Njoya invite 'No' clerics to debate on 'truth'

Ndugu Sungu,
I agree. Before we dismiss Gitari and Njoya, those complaining about their stand should bring the CVs of the those in NO side starting with Dr. Bishop Wanjiru who is their spiritual nourisher. Let us see where she went to school and what she has achieved and then we can complain about Njoya and Gitari statement to the effects that most of these fellows got their degrees in the streets. Didnt Muiru get his at Jeevanjee? Another senior fellow in that group got his in jail. Some disapear to Mwea and hide in Ngurubani and return to their churches with an avalanche of degrees, all awarded and printed at River Road!
 
I will start by laying bare Ren. Njoya's CV. Lets see Wanjiru's and let them tell us how she managed to get all those titles after flanking her form exams where I read somewhere that she had a weak division four:)
 
Ladies and gentlemen, Rev. Dr. Timothy Murere Njoya!
 

TIMOTHY MURERE NJOYA

P.O Box 960

00502 Karen

KENYA

Office: Karinyo Rock Garden

Ngong Rd, Ngong Town

Tel: +254 (0)45 40878

Email: reverend@timothynjoya.com

Website: www.timothynjoya.com

EDUCATION:

1998: Doctor of Divinity, Knox College, University of Toronto.

1976: Doctor of Philosophy (Honors), Princeton Theological

Seminary.

1971: Master of Theology, Princeton Theological Seminary.

1966: Diploma in Theology, Makerere University.

1966: College Certificate, St Paul's United Theological College.

1967- PRESENT: MINISTER OF THE CHURCH

Highlights:

(1) The Church has defrocked me three times: 1979,1984 and

1987-8 on the basis of allegations that I am using the

pulpit for politics.

(2) The State has made three attempts on my life, fearing

that I am involving the Church in politics.

(3) 2004: with co-applicants, won the landmark

constitutional case against the Attorney General and the

Chairman of the Constitution of Kenya Review Commission

on Referendum.

A. RECENT PUBLIC INITIATIVES.

A founder of Men for the Equality of Men and Women (MEW)(1999) and

current Executive Director.

A founder member of the Center for Governance and Development, and

former chairman of the Board.

A founder member of the National Convention Assembly/National

Convection Executive Council (1997), where I served as Co-Convener

and Spokesperson.

A founder member of Release Political Prisoners.

B. LABOR EXPERIENCE

2001-Present: House Husband.

1987-Present: In the struggle for multiparty democracy and

constitutional reform.

1999-2001: Minister of Kinoo Parish.

2

1996-1998: Minister of Mathare Parish and Moderator of Nairobi

Presbytery.

1993-1996: Minister of Dagoretti Parish.

1991-1993: Chaplain in Kenyatta National Hospital.

1988-1991: Minister of Tumutumu Parish.

1980-1987: Minister of St Andrew's Church and Parish.

1976-1980: Secretary of the Committee for the Training of the

Ministry and Secretary of Lay Training Board.

Secretary and Treasurer of the Training and

Personnel Development Committee.

19769-70: Minister of Richardson Memorial Church and Olivet

Covenant Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia USA.

1971: Head of National Mission to Tulsa Metropolitan

Ministry, Oklahoma, USA.

1968-1976: Lecturer in Ecumenics, Department of Theology,

Princeton Theological Seminary.

1967-1968: Minister in Chuka, Chogoria, St. Andrews and

Dagoretti consecutively.

Other jobs: Waiter, Janitor, Tractor Driver, Dish washer,

Watchman, Baby sitter, Princeton traveling choir.

C. MAJOR PUBLICATIONS:

The Divine Tag on Democracy (Yaounde, Cameroon: Editions CLE,

2003) 370 pages ISBN 2-7235-0176-0

Out of Silence: A Collection of Sermons (Nairobi, Kenya: Beyond

Magazine, 1987) 121 pages ISBN 978-9966984500

Human Dignity and National Identity (Nairobi, Kenya: Jemisik

Cultural Books, 1987) 217 pages ISBN 978-9966858054

E. ECUMENICAL CONTRIBUTION:

1976-1997: Served NATIONAL COUNCIL OF CHURCHES OF KENYA in various

capacities as:

i) Chairperson of Theological Committee.

ii) Chairperson of Ecumenical Loan Fund Probe Committee.

iii)Chairperson of Research and Study Committee.

iv) Chairperson the General Secretary Task Force Committee.

V) Currently Member of Executive Committee.

1979-1994:Served the WORLD COUNCIL OF CHURCHES in various

theological consultations:

i) Faith and Order Commission.

ii) Church Mission and Evangelism.

iii) Commission on the Church's Participation in Development.

iv) Church and Society.

v) UN Preparatory conference on Human Rights in Tunisia.

vi) Ecumenical Monitoring Program for Southern Africa.

3

vii) Spoke at the joint UNDP and UNEP conference in Eritrea.

Served the WORLD ALLIANCE OF REFORMED CHURCHES (WARC) in various

consultations:

(i) Church and Society Committee.

(ii) Theological Consultations on Church Union.

(iii)Represented WARC in the United Nations Conference on New

and Renewable Sources of Energy.

Served the ALL AFRICA CONFERENCE OF CHURCHES (AACC) as:

(i) AACC Youth Chaplain

(ii) Headed the AACC monitors delegation to the Malawi

Referendum.

Chairman of ST PAUL'S UNITED THEOLOGICAL COLLEGE Academic Board in

1979 -1980.

A member of the Review Committee for Gikuyu Bible Translation.

J. GLOBAL RECOGNITION:

Honored by a resolution of the House of Representatives of the

General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Kentucky-HR 18 (2004)

Recipient of the John Humphrey Freedom Award of the International

Centre for Human Rights and Democratic Development (2000)

Recipient of the E.H. Johnson Award of the Presbyterian Church of

Canada/E.H Johnson Memorial Trust (1995)

I. HOBBIES:

Doodling. Loitering with intent in the street, slums and rural

communities. Shamba work. Story telling. Rock gardening and

building a depository. Taste for argument.

K.OTHER EXPEREINCE: I have been killed three times by the State

and have risen three times, 1977, 1997 and 1999.

L. FAMILY STATUS: Born on 7-4-1941. Married to Leah Wambui Njau on

27-4-1968 and have 5 children and 4 grandchildren.



On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:20 AM, otieno sungu <sunoti@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Askofu Kuria Mwangi,
 
Exactly, let them open both their Bibles and the draft KATIBA and debate from there, the truth will come out. If some say men will marry men, they should be able to convince the flock, using the draft Katiba and not imagination to justify those remarks.
 
Atleast the audience will have a chance to ask questions, not the way it is in rallies and pulpits where one cannot be questioned. I agree with Njoya that if one cannot take such a challenge to bring out the truth, then they are just porojo men clothed in clergy regalia.
 
Tell this to Ruth, it is not about polarizing anybody but establishing the truth so we can vote from informed positions.
 
Otieno Sungu

From: Kuria-Mwangi <kjmwangi@gmail.com> Sent: Mon, July 26, 2010 6:04:05 PM

Subject: Re: Gitari, Njoya invite 'No' clerics to debate on 'truth'

Ruth,
Sungu is talking about a moderated debate like the ones being held by not too religious folks-eg Martha K Vs Bill Ruto.
 
We can have Gitari debate Njue while Njoya tackles Bishop Wanjiru the way His Worship Otto has been debating His Holiness Kombo.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Ruth Onyango <ruonyango@gmail.com> wrote:
Sungu,
 
such a contest is ungodly and will only work to divide the church. Lets us not get freinzied about KATIBA. We better now think about its implementation, the obstacle and challenges ahead.
 
Passing the KATIBA is just by a vote, but the implementation is a process. AM 4 YES but you want to be enlightened how the counties will function and the source of their funding. Could it be Levies, Permits.....etc etc on top of current taxes.
 
Ruth

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:38 AM, otieno sungu <sunoti@yahoo.com> wrote:
The truth shall set us free, which clergy will take on these two, where is Mark Mariuki, Margaret Wanjiru, Pius Muiru, Lai,Cannon Peter Karanja etc, isn't this a great opportunity to establish the truth of the word of God??
 
It is now almost three days since this challenge was given and none is coming out.Real men of God never shy away from a challenge which is to show the glory of God, remember Moses and his walking stick which turned into snake and swallowed the ones of the false prophets? Even Elijah and the prophets of Baal.
 
Jesus too never shied away from the challenges of the Pharisees and Sedducees, let us know where the truth lies and who are the true men of God in these debates.
 
 
THE TRUTH SHALL SET US FREE!!!! Let us hear it on a debate from none other than the men of God, not politicians, and those who will try justifying their cowerdice, we tell you upfront that God's servants never shy away from speaking on His side, even if the risk is to be thrown into a den of lions like Shardack, Meshack and Abednego!!!!!
 
We are waiting wit bated breath because we want to know where the truth really is!!!!!
 
Otieno Sungu


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