Thanks
But we should remember that the problem we had in 2007 was rigged election and not bad katiba. Evene this draft will not make it better. Infact it gives the president imperial powers.
Secondly, you have only extracted good clauses from the draft. Do you want to imply that it has no flaws? Ofcourse there are and have been identified. Why not iron this out first and take it to the referendum? Otherwise it will be like jumping from fire to a frying pan.
Thirdly, you have a thinking that those in the NO are uninformed, illiterate and unlearned. Do you want us to splash our degrees here for you to know that we went to school? You will be shocked. We have people of letters also on the NO side. The problem is that they appear to be illiterate to you because they do not agree with you on the draft.
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:57:32 -0700
From: jairuschurch@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: NTIMAMA AND K
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Jonah and those who want to scuttle the Draft Constitution,
From a first glance one would be mistaken to believe that Kenya has many informed literate, educated and learned people, but reading through these mails, one will be forgiven to conclude that though there are many who can sit in front of a computer and key in some information, especially when it comes to an argument, the truth is; many are still uninformed, illiterate, and unlearned.
To learn about something you do not need to go into a classroom. One can learn even in a bush, by the sea side, on the road, in the farm etc etc. While postings here present their side of arguments in an educated fashion for NO, what these educated fellows have failed to learn is that The present Constitution;
1. Never addressed the rights of an individual Citizen
2. Never addressed land problems
3. Gave the President too much powers, which led to abuse of those powers, As was witnessed during Nyayo era, as well as the previous administration.
Now in order to address such issues which look simple from far, but are far from simple since they have affected the growth of Citizens as well as the growth of the Nation, We must overhaul this Colonial approved Constitution, and install our own designed constitution. We must start afresh
Let me say here, that, Kibaki is leaving in 2012, and we do not know who will come in as the next Kenyan President. Now just imagine for a moment that you end up with this constitution and a Mr Bafwoli, who believes it is time for his people to eat, as the President, do you believe there will be equitable distribution of wealth? Another scenario, suppose you end up with a man like Raila Odinga, a Veteran detainee, as the president, who decides to appoint all those he suffered with, in detention to run this country, and suppose he decides to punish those who detained him, because the present constitution gives him the powers to do so, do you believe there will be enjoyment of freedom by citizens?
Those are just two scenarios, which the citizens would prefer never to happen, but which are possible, especially if Kenyans fail to install a new constitution. It is therefore imperative that we plan and avoid such situations ever coming to reality. Kenyans must install, a new constitution that gives Parliament powers to approve appointments and or Veto appointments of Cronies to further digress development of the Nation.
You can continue yapping about NO, but it is at your own peril.
Have a thoughful day
Jagem
From: Jonah Ogaro <jonahogaro@hotmail.com>
To: mlalahoi mlalahoi <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, July 22, 2010 4:04:09 AM
Subject: RE: NTIMAMA AND K
Nd Benji
The YES will win if only they customize the template from Comrade Mugabe i.e. intimidation, bribery, killings, use of satte machinery, civil servants, rigging etc. Otherwise on fair playing field they cannot win.
I'm not a follower of Ruto or anyone. My NO is based on my understanding of the draft. Just to remind you that we have also people in the YES side who are not clean. As I have mentioned before, most of those people on the YES side happily worked with Moi in the KANU government. Now that they are on the YES side, they are 'reformers'. Bure kabisa.
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:15:47 +0100
From: me_benji@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: NTIMAMA AND K
To: postmaster
CC: kibaya@aol.com; jonahogaro@hotmail.com
Ogaro and Kibaya, I've got news for you. YES side will win, my only doubts being esp Eastern province and if that goes awry the kamba chief (VP) will have to take responsibility for that. The NO side has poked holes in everything and exploited fear and uncertainty which is natural when one is unsure. But as time passes and Kenyans think about it more and more, there is everything to gain from passing the document and moving the country forward.
Ruto has so many issues coming up, and complex ones. We aren't worried about him, he aint no hero. Credit to Moi for his consistency, has a great vision to shackle Kenya to KANU-ism and politics of 1983.
Cheers!
p.s
Flying a recupertating 65 year old around the country is not the same as him sitting at home receiving delegations. So stop with the conspiracy theories. the principals together on this issue, equals a win.
--- On Wed, 7/21/10, kibaya@aol.com <kibaya@aol.com> wrote:
From: kibaya@aol.com <kibaya@aol.com>
Subject: Re: NTIMAMA AND K
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 12:08 AM
Folks, Take Ogaro's assessment and projections seriously. The tell-tale signs of who is panicking and employing desperate tactics are written all over the YES camp. From illegally engaging civil servants in partisan campaigns, forcing provincial administration to campaign for a document that calls for their re-deployment, to hiring goons to disrupt NO rallies; it's all too evident for those keen on digging deeper than provided by cooked-up opinion polls, that YES is in deep trouble. And as I opined earlier, the consumers of NSIS intelligence data (mostly YES stalwarts) know this and may have made peace with it. I project that central and eastern provinces will vote massively in the NO column. All the activity you see with the Yes teams in Central is all geared towards expending the available liquidity (and there is plenty of it!) and oiling campaign machines by incumbent mps for 2012. Listen to them and you'll know they're not serious..Michuki says he's in YES team to help a friend in trouble, somebody else says they need to vote YES to please Kibaki by giving him some legacy! Central province voters are the most independent/informed lot in the republic and rarely do they vote to please anybody or on instructions from anybody. Ask Kamotho, or Uhuru himself, even with the Kenyatta name; the people will only follow you if your positions align with their interests. The church is also very powerful here and virtually no politician ever locks horns with it. Now, the church and NO team are pointing out specific, offensive clauses in the proposed constitution. To respond to these with generalities like we're hearing from Kibaki, Uhuru and Kalonzo, or laughable reasons like ones advanced by Michuki or kimunya simply tells you these guys are not serious. But they have to be seen going round; otherwise how do you tap into the millions set aside for the exercise without beeing seen in Muranga, Kiambu, etc? How does SK Macharia tap into the hundreds of millions set aside for marketing/advertisements without the airing the stuff he's airing or conducting the road shows? Me thinks it's all about money my friends...pesa iko lazima ikuliwe! Isn't there a saying that you don't bury an elephant with it's tusks?
Good thing: all the political actors have read it correctly this time round. A NO win does not threaten anybody; in fact everybody wins. Ruto cements his political supremacy in RV but nothing more, Moi re-invents his relevance in RV after the disastrous 2007 routing, Kalonzo and Uhuru still retain their home turf supremacies, Raila insulates himself against reaping blame for the results, by receding from the front lines and leaving it to Kibaki. Don't tell me Tinga is not well enough to hit the road; if he can host the many mtgs we're witnessing at his home, he can surely be flown into meetings and give short speeches. It's all tactical; they're not going to catch him flat footed like they did in mau...Kudos Tinga for this tactical positioning! Kibaki loses nothing. In fact he wins by defeating the muzungu's ill conceived crusade (In kibaki and moi's minds this constitution writing thing is mzungu idea, and we all know how much they loathe such). Kibaki has become a master of winning by losing/appearing to lose and this could be one such moment.. Kibaya
-----Original Message----- From: Jonah Ogaro <jonahogaro@hotmail.com> To: mlalahoi mlalahoi <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jul 20, 2010 2:23 pm Subject: RE: NTIMAMA AND K I'm not worried of Ntimama declaration. Those are the kicks of a dying horse and the losing YES team. Today as I was going to Kisii, I passed through Mai Mahiu and a Chief complete in uniform asked me for a lift to go and attend a DCs meeting at Narok. He told us that most of the Maasai's are in the NO side. They have declared that Ruto must be allowed to attend Suswa meeting at Suswa OR else the King of Maasai will not be allowed also in the constituency. And by the way, why hasn't Mzalendo taken up Ntimama for hate speech. I was attending a funeral today in my home area in Kisii. My enquiry confirmed that the NO is carrying the day. Those in the YES they better prepare to join the NO after referendum to come up with a good constitution. Nd Omtatah, thank you for your articles. They have beefed up my civic education materials which I'm dishing out to people in my home area. The NO will win unless we get a Kivuitu type surprise. > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:52:03 +0300 > Subject: Re: NTIMAMA AND K > From: amosogal@gmail.com> To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com> > All Ntimama said was that Suswa is a sacred place for the Maa > community! Its not a place for every Moi, Raila, Ruto to go and hold > rallies. They must seek the permission of Maa leaders! > > Otherwise,something similar to what happen when Raila was installed as > a Maa leader will happen again! > > > > > On 7/20/10, Justice Kirwok < kirwok@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > If you recently listened to Ntimama's speech prohibiting the NO > > campaigners from doing their campaigns at Suswa, and also Njenga > > Karume's speech in Molo about LAND then you can never be convinced > > further that they are purely bloody hate speeches. > > > > With this kind of trend, especially these guys being immune to > > Kubunja's commission(or inspired by NCIIC?) I have lost the last hope > > of seeing a peaceful Kenya after referendum whether the YES or NO > > wins. > > > > J. Kirwok > > > > -- > > MANY JOB VACANCIES: http://bit.ly/bROydQ > > > > TECHMTAA BLOG: http://bit.ly/cmRFZR > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, Email mlalahoi+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > > > TO ADVERTISE HERE PLEASE M-PESA KSH 1,000 for each advert or Ksh 5,000 for > > monthly subscription to +254 726 034 530 > > > > -- > MANY JOB VACANCIES: http://bit.ly/bROydQ> > TECHMTAA BLOG: http://bit.ly/cmRFZR> > To unsubscribe from this group, Email mlalahoi+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com> > TO ADVERTISE HERE PLEASE M-PESA KSH 1,000 for each advert or Ksh 5,000 for monthly subscription to +254 726 034 530
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now. -- MANY JOB VACANCIES: http://bit.ly/bROydQ TECHMTAA BLOG: http://bit.ly/cmRFZR To unsubscribe from this group, Email mlalahoi+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com TO ADVERTISE HERE PLEASE M-PESA KSH 1,000 for each advert or Ksh 5,000 for monthly subscription to +254 726 034 530 -- MANY JOB VACANCIES: http://bit.ly/bROydQ TECHMTAA BLOG: http://bit.ly/cmRFZR To unsubscribe from this group, Email mlalahoi+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com TO ADVERTISE HERE PLEASE M-PESA KSH 1,000 for each advert or Ksh 5,000 for monthly subscription to +254 726 034 530
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