ORGANO GOLD COFFEE MILLIONAIRES IN KENYA: Re:decorum please:

I agree with you on the issue of not electing leaders for people. But i refuse whinning and complaining about the past which we can do little about.

The past dictated matters to be handled differently due to the political climate then. People were struggling to survive and there was alot of inplanting by the enemy to weaken the oponents position. That was then and the dynamics were necessary for that time.

Kwa sasa, we are in a new era. lets now focus on making a difference and not keep dwelling on the past. It drains energies.

The greatest question we should be asking is "What's our way forward" How do we engage at party levels, with the Goverment to ensure real change.

Some forums are already dealing with that, we should join them and move forward now.

Okinda, Lets stop whinning and complaining about the past, thats my plea.

Cheers!!!!!!!!

Millicent Odhiambo,
Executive Officer,
Mombasa and Coast Tourist Association
Moi Avenue & Agakhan Road,
P.O. Box 99596(80107),Mombasa,Kenya
Phone : +254.(41) 2225428 |
Mobile: +254. 722475796
Email:modhiambos@yahoo.com / mcta@africaonline.co.ke.
Website: www.kenyacoast.net
THE VOICE OF AUTHORITY FOR KENYA COAST TOURISM

"Look not mournfully into the past, it comes not back again.Wisely improve the present, it is thine. Go forth to meet the shadowy future without fear and with a manly heart." -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

From: "modhiambos@yahoo.com" <modhiambos@yahoo.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, August 30, 2010 11:27:54 AM
Subject: Re: Milly:decorum please:

I agree with you Okinda

Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from Zain Kenya

From: jt okinda <archjt2004@yahoo.com>

Sender: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 00:03:05 -0700 (PDT)

To: <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Milly:decorum please:

Alex,

We must continue educating our people to embrace democratic culture. That is the only way to ensure a civilized society for all. Those who still hold the opinion that their survival in this country/world is dependent on their tribesman/woman holding the presidency should understand that that is never the case. As for selection of leaders, I would to put it to the likes of Millie/Erick that the people must be left to choose leaders for themselves at all levels!

OKINDA JT

From: Alex Tallam <alextallam@yahoo.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 3:23:23 PM
Subject: Re: Milly:decorum please:

This must be one of the most retrogressive and backward arguements I have ever seen!!! ati "I would still ask Raila to go ahead and chose for us leaders in future as a people from Luo Nyanza". now if I may ask, why then do you still need elections? by the way, did you go to school?

From: Eric Wabwaya Mburi <ewabwaya@hotmail.com>
To: Agola Atieno <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 2:05:06 PM
Subject: RE: Milly:decorum please:

Okinda,

This is very sad of you my friend.I do not want to support anyone here on Nyanza leaqders being selected or elected but I would like to make it clear that in some areas selection has been done for people of Nyanza and the reasons behind this one can only get if you have the historical background of the happenings as Milly rightly puts it.

Okinda I dont think there is anyone in this world who goes into politics without vested interests. The Luos as a people have had to contend with not being wanted from the previous two successive governments for the simple freason that they were not willing to join hands with Kenyatta initially when he wanted Jaramogi to join him in eating. then Moi came during Jaramogis time and more seriously during Raila's time. The reason our leaders from Luo Nyanza thought it wise to be selecting leaders was solely to protect the interests of a people being trodded on by the so called those in power. In a scenario where it was left for people to decide,there ended up a situation where those electede are bought and they change tone once in parliamnt then sing along with those hatred messages which most of the time were directed at the Luo. You remember Tuju,Aringo,Omamo(Late) and others. I still beleive that until now this new constitution taKES EFFECT AND WE REAlise its gains then I would still ask Raila to go ahead and chose for us leaders in future as a people from Luo Nyanza.

Okinda on this please leave the Luo people alone.

Ja'kamburi

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:21:42 -0700
From: dmbaru2007@yahoo.com
Subject: Milly:decorum please:
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com

Milly
Tone down your abbrasive language,you are not here to lecture others,you are here in this mtandao to add value to the debates,if, for any measure ,you feel a debate or an issue is beneath your standard or argument, please SHUT UP in decorum...this mtandao needs the input of all the people...no one is in this net by default...dont lower the standards and expectations of the debates we demand from this net...You are nothing without the others..and the others are nothing without you..so strike a diplo-balance!Sawa!

dzombombaru

From: Millicent Odhiambo <modhiambos@yahoo.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 8:30:24 AM
Subject: Re: : RAILA IS HOUNDING A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW - MBARE OTIENO PHD, PROFESSOR

Okinda,

Dont get into politics if you don't know how to play the game and then start crying foul. You are not a poilitics material get your hands doing what you are cut out to do. If you dont know find it.

I was a delegate from Coast and your name did not even feature in our meetings. Where were you campaigning? The delegates conference used a consensus system and was focused towards striving to create regional balance. I think it was well done to avoid unecessary conflict and acrimony. Most names were being presented from their regions. It worked. pole sana.

Politics is Politics.

Anywhere where in Kenya did the masses not support their own. Be real!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do we have part of the Rift Valley walking out of ODM en mass? Following their opinion leader Ruto, Thats the truth, face it. If Ruto did not walk out, The Tallams would still be there.

Stop using many words to confuse people here.

From: Alex Tallam <alextallam@yahoo.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 4:47:37 PM
Subject: Re: : RAILA IS HOUNDING A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW - MBARE OTIENO PHD, PROFESSOR

Okinda,

Thanks for coming out to tell us the truth!!! I never knew you were involved in the purpoted elections but at least you have some first hand information which might help the blind see and the deaf to hear. On the same note, I request you to be the voice in the desert and don't be cowed by those bend on retaining the status quo, we need people like you to speak out and may be the people of Nyanza and the rest of the country can break off from these evil patronage.

Kenya is for all of us and we should never allow our leaders to loath it on us, we should not allow them to select leaders for us, people should be able to freely offer themselves for election without hinderance by those bend on holding communities at randsom, never again should we allow the would be leaders to ride on names of others to leadership positions without being put to test through competiive elections. We as a people loose alot when we have undeserving leaders leading us!! they always be serving the interest of those who selected them.

What we lack as Kenyans is honesty!! the people in the grassroots are suffering because of these, and not even the new constitution will save us if we are not going to stand up against this partronage system!!

Thanks once again.

Alex.

From: jt okinda <archjt2004@yahoo.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 2:35:42 PM
Subject: Re: : RAILA IS HOUNDING A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW - MBARE OTIENO PHD, PROFESSOR

Alex,

Tell it as it is! We are not going to use words to pretend that things are rosy when they are not. I come from luo nyanza and I can tell you without fear of contradiction that for the last four general elections, we have been voting en-mass for the political party fronted by Hon. Raila on a three piece basis. It has not mattered for the electorate whether a candidate for civic/parliamentary seat obtained his party ticket fairly or not. This has given room for some individuals(not necessarily Raila) to manipulate the process and get unpopular individuals to parliament/civic wards.
Personally, I experienced the ugly part of this politics when I offered my candidacy for ODM SECRETARY GENERAL last year. I paid all the necessary fees, campaigned in all the provinces only to discover during the delegates conference at Bomas that some select names were to be read for various posts without voting. No voting was ever carried out so those occupying ODM national posts are a bunch of individuals without mandate from the voters! I challenged any of them particularly the outgoing secretary general to contradict this position!
Now that the new constitution stipulates that all elections must be by secret ballot, we expect ODM to hold its national elections as soon as possible. The message is that no political party will participate in the 2012 general elections without legally constituted office.

OKINDA JT

From: Alex Tallam <alextallam@yahoo.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 11:38:16 AM
Subject: : RAILA IS HOUNDING A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW - MBARE OTIENO PHD, PROFESSOR

Milli,

I don't understand why you are not getting a simple arguement!!! the leaders in ODM from other regions are just alone!!! they are not with the masses in ODM!! the just concluded referundum reflect what we are talking about. I have never defended Ruto on this forum and you can prove this by refering to my earlier posts!!! We as Kalenjins broke away from Moi's patronage system in 2007 and we are not going to allow Ruto to built another one because we understand how retroggressive such situations can be. Moi was president for 24 years and all this time, he selected leaders for us and there was nothing we could do because of what he was!!! you can say we never had the nerves to rise up against him then, which I will agree with you, but I can tell you for sure that Moi was even more ruthless when he was dealing with a Kalenjin than anybody else!!! do some research on this and you will prove me right.

So when some of us comment on what is going on in Nyanza, we do so from an informed point having gone through a similar system. I can tell you for sure that the poeple of Luo Nyanza have never experienced any freedom or independence when it comes to electing their leaders!!! they have always had selected leaders!!! you cannot challenge me on this because you know I am stating the obvious!! it is here where we have seen the intelligent, the learned, the intelectuals, simply put the elites being moulded into the lowest sycophants we have ever seen!!! who could have thought the likes of Orengo and Nyongo can turn out to be what they are at the moment? so the people of Luo Nyanza are intertaining this system at their on peril!!

Otherwise don't be overprotective of Raila, he is my PM too you know and I also voted for him!!! so I have a right to criticise and comment on him!!! I dont expect you to tramble on my rights in the name of protecting him!!! he can be anyware, he can even be in space but he is still the Kenyan PM and I am a Kenyan so he is my PM!!! if you don't want people to talk about him, then tell him to stop being our PM and you will never see people commenting on him and you can have him all for yourself!!! for now, lets talk about him!!!

Have a nice day.

Alex.

From: Millicent Odhiambo <modhiambos@yahoo.com>
To: youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com
Cc: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 8:39:08 AM
Subject: Re: [YP_Ke] Is Raila Practicing NEPOTISM?

Alex Tallam,

The system that was promoted political patronage, no one can deny that. I don't understand why you are incensed on Raila particularly yet we had it with Moi, and now Ruto too is practising what you are condemning here. Kenyatta too practised it. Why do you think the Central Mps suddenly aggressively turned YES!!, The president said. You heard Michuki say it. So whats the problem here.

We believe the New Constitution will neutralise all this. Instead of getting stuck in some past and sitting here arguing over doors which are closing can we be more progressive and appreciate the new dawn.

Even you today in this forum have defended Ruto tooth and nail not for his principals but because he comes from your tribe. Alex, Beat it, lets be real, lets create a new beginning.

Give us a break in this forum with Raila this, Raila that, He has also gone on holiday ITALY if you are not aware.

ODM as a party has Kosgey as chairman, Deputy party Musalia Mudavadi, Joho as Organising Secretary, Executive Director as Janet Ongera, Secretary as Anyang Nyongo. Magara was treasurer before he defected. Misoi is the elections chief.

Where are all these Luos Dr. Mbare claims are dictating in ODM. Please spare us personal feelings about a situation.

Dr. Mbare, i have read your posting, its distorted, totally. i felt sorry and wished you never appended your name to it. Your reasons are not factual, they are more emotion based. As i read your article, i see a bitter man.

From: Alex Tallam <alextallam@yahoo.com>
To: Young Professionals <youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 7:47:50 PM
Subject: [YP_Ke] Is Raila Practicing NEPOTISM?

Dr Obare has stated what has been discussed in this forum before, the only difference now is that it is somebody from Nyanza stating the same!! Dr Obare has seen what others have not. The guys villifying him are those comsumed by sycophancy and they are bend on retaining the status quo on the ground regardless of the consequence to the people of Nyanza. That is why he is being fought like a plague!! it is an open secret that MPs from Nyanza are reducing ODM which was otherwise a national party to a Luo party. They may be doing this subconsiously but surely they are doing it!!! they have antagonised and scared away leaders and members from other regions and soon they will be holding a skeleton in their hands.

Nyanza leaders have come out to display high level of sycophancy never seen in our country's history!! they have been in competition to hang on Raila's coatails with the hope of riding on it back to parliament or other high profile positions. It should be noted though that this has come as a result of a complex system of patronage built by the Oginga family. This system has galvanised the Luo Nyanza to an extend that anybody wishing to vie for any position of leadership has to dance to the tune of this system, otherwise your chances are minimal if you swim against the currents.

my 2 cents.

From: milu muyanga <wamuyanga@yahoo.com>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 5:36:27 AM
Subject: Re: : RAILA IS HOUNDING A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW - MBARE OTIENO PHD, PROFESSOR

While Dr. Otieno Mbare is not known to me personally, I am afraid he is raising very important issues here. Mr. Paul Nyandoto seems to know Dr. Mbare very well and deliberately wants to divert our attention to some personal issues. He should start another thread on the character of Dr. Mbare. Can members comment on the substance contained in Dr.Mbare's posting.

***************************************
"I have spoken, now you can kill me". Manundu Mbindyo, Kyatune

From: Paul Nyandoto <paul.nyandoto@phsotey.fi>
To: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com; awachtin@yahoo.com
Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 2:18:09 PM
Subject: : RAILA IS HOUNDING A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW - MBARE OTIENO PHD, PROFESSOR

Otieno Mbare BSc, Msc,PHD etc.

I am not a politician and I do not want to be a politician. I have already politicians from my family tree and I know what politics is, so me I have chosen a different line: I advice you to leave begging people like Raila to help you jump into parliament. You are a biter man who have failed I do not know how many times to go to parliament and it looks that your last hope was Raila and when Raila did not give you the TOSHA word he gave Kibaki you are now hitting almost every corner for revange. Just a minute !! by the way when you wanted Raila to give you Tosha word what were you thinking?. Is that not the wrong things you are now criticising below here . In other words you are just a patient in denial or what?. I must have missed the diagnosis thanks for clearing the air. If the ODM party is such a joke why can n` you form another party with Ruto I hear you are friends even in conversation privately. Look at even how you reason; what the hell are you going to do in parliament with such mentality?. Infact one chap in this forum said that most of the Phd holders are the worst leaders who can not even lead a company, I thought he was joking but now I do support him. Be worried when most people agree with you but take more care when everybody is against you,especially your posting below here:

Paul Nyandoto

From: Kasipul Kabondo <,>

Sender: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 08:51:22 -0700 (PDT)

To: kca_main<kca_main@yahoogroups.com>; <africa-oped@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: mlalahoi@googlegroups.com

Cc: <NewVisionKenya@yahoogroups.com>; NVK-M MAGEUZI<NVK-Mageuzi@yahoogroups.com>; Mlalahoi<mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>; <kisumu@standardmedia.co.ke>; <mombasa@standardmedia.co.ke>; <eldoret@standardmedia.co.ke>; <kakamega@standardmedia.co.ke>; <abarasa@standardmedia.co.ke>; <digitalnews@nation.co.ke>; <newsdesk@nation.co.ke>; <bdnewsdesk@nation.co.ke>

Subject: Press Release: Post-Referendum and Party Discipline

Post-Referendum and Party Discipline

After the much-talked about referendum was over, Kenyans in all corners of the republic of Kenya breathed a sigh of relief that after all the name calling and finger pointing, everything went peacefully. That's what Kenyans have been yawning for. It's therefore in order to congratulate those who spearheaded the YES campaigns and equally congratulate those who championed the NO crusade. Democracy requires that people hold divergent views even though they may come from the same party.

It's against this background that a considerable number of Kenyans find it rather odd that the ODM party is calling for a disciplinary action on members of the party who had expressed contrary views to that of the party. I have said it many times that the referendum was not a party issue but rather, a national issue that required thorough reading, understanding and proper interpretation on how the new law will impact on your life and that of posterity before casting your vote. The call for disciplinary action by ODM is therefore na?ve and borders on ignorance – it negates the very essence of a referendum; it's a call that flies with its filth in the face of democracy yet it's emanating from the very party which touts itself as the custodian of democracy in Kenya. I think ODM need to borrow a leaf from PNU which also had critics of the constitution but it's now water under the bridge. There was no winner or loser in the referendum. We need to tolerate and accommodate all the views as a young democracy. We might think we are instilling discipline yet we are just destroying our party.

ODM as a party has been on a self-destruction-path just immediately after signing the national accord that paved way for power sharing. Most MPs in ODM lack proper judgment; they are intolerant and; are not ready for rational discourse. This attitude by mostly Nyanza MPs has alienated many supporters of the party from Coast to Kisii; and from Rift Valley to Eastern. Surely, how does ODM expect to get any national following after descending on all their support bases with such vehemence? Someone needs to advise the party that you cannot expect to run the party like "buch jodong aich" (baraza la miji kumi) and expect Kenyans to provide support again. That can only happen in Luo-Nyanza where people go with any euphoria and recollect themselves later after electing bad leaders. As a person from Nyanza, we need men and women who can transact business on our behalf with others from other communities – not characters who are hell-bent on alienating us from the rest of other Kenyans!

The hard-line positions being taken by some Nyanza MPs indicate that majority of these leaders badly need civic education. Some of these leaders are highly learned but lack education on how democracy works. They should understand that people will always have different opinions in a democracy and that is why Kenyans have been fighting for more democratic space in the country. It's a pity that Nyanza leaders were at the forefront agitating for democracy in Kenya but a visit to my Nyanza backyard will tell you that Nyanza believes in a One-Party dictatorship – our people don't believe in democracy! They called president Moi names and all sorts of epithets – but they are stuck in a one-party dictatorship. In short, our people have not understood the meaning of multi-partism! If they believe, you would have seen different results in the just concluded referendum. Anyone doubting my assertions only need to check the way Nyanza voted compared to the rest of the country (even the Rift Valley which was the strong hold of NO), and you will agree with me that a lot of civic education is needed in Nyanza. Nyanza has many good leaders but our political culture (the culture of patronage and intimidation) has not allowed these sons and daughters of Ramogi to provide acceptable leadership. It's the same bad political culture that some leaders are trying to export to the national politics. ODM will soon become a Luo party if some Nyanza leaders are not tamed!

Dr. Otieno Mbare, Finland

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Otieno Mbare, P.hD (Econ & Bus.Adm)

Research Fellow, ?bo Akademi University &

Lecturer, Turku University of Applied Sciences

Tel. +358 2 2154 095 (off1)+358 2 2154 976 (Off) +358 40 5341 996

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ORGANO GOLD COFFEE MILLIONAIRES IN KENYA

Monday, August 30, 2010

Re:decorum please:

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